Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
dan8400
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Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:08 pm

Hi

I have the new version HST which is brilliant. I have GNER livery and really fancied a 225 set to go in the other direction.

My question is: are either of the power cars in a 225 set the same wheel base (and wheel layout) as the class 43 hst? If so I could 'bash' a body to fit a new version HST chassis.

Unless there is another way to achieve what I want?

Thanks
Dan
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby D605Eagle » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:35 pm

No. A 225 is a class 91 at one end and a DVT at the other. The 91's wheelbase is not the same as an HST. You can buy a GNER liveried 225 set and buy the coaches separately to go with it.
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:54 pm

Thanks for the reply Eagle.

I was really after using the new chassis. It is so powerful. I can pull a full length hst (with capacity to spare, it'd probably pull twice as much) on my layout which has a couple of inclines. The ringfield power cars won't. Not heavy enough or powerful enough. I have even remotored two of them with cd tray motors. They run great but won't pull a full train

May be a case of stretching a chassis to fit? Don't know

Thanks
Dan
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:03 am

Duplicate information
Last edited by GWR_fan on Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby D605Eagle » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:09 am

dan8400 wrote:Thanks for the reply Eagle.

I was really after using the new chassis. It is so powerful. I can pull a full length hst (with capacity to spare, it'd probably pull twice as much) on my layout which has a couple of inclines. The ringfield power cars won't. Not heavy enough or powerful enough. I have even remotored two of them with cd tray motors. They run great but won't pull a full train

May be a case of stretching a chassis to fit? Don't know

Thanks
Dan

Maybe a Heljan class 86 chassis might be right, I'm only guessing here.

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby b308 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:37 am

Class 91:

Bogie wheelbase: 3350
Bogie centres: 10500

Class 86:

BW: 3280
BC: 9980

Not too far out but your main issue is the bogie sideframes which are completely different.

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:42 am

Thanks b308

I think I may as well start with a train pack as suggested by Eagle, then stretch (or shorten) a modern hst chassis (of which I have a spare) and then cut and shut bogie frames etc after that.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:49 am

...and if you say all that quick enough, it'll be easy :shock:
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby Bigmet » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:04 am

dan8400 wrote:... then stretch (or shorten) a modern hst chassis (of which I have a spare) and then cut and shut bogie frames etc after that.

Unless you are really picky, I wouldn't bother stretching the HST chassis, (assuming the HST model is to scale) as the bogie centres are short 200mm of the class 91 in reality. It is the HST bogies that would require a major stretch, however you choose to accomplish that. Unfortunately the Hornby rnage doesn't have a compatible longer wheelbase Bo bogie in it.

I'd go for the suggestion that 'D605Eagle' made of the Heljan class 86 myself. It's practically right. It will pull just as well as the Hornby model. The only caveat is speed; Heljan tend to gear for 'not so fast' because they know that most diesel and electric traction purchasers have a TMD as a layout and never run the locos over a scale 5mph.

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:27 am

Thanks for the info bigmet. Might be easier to stick with the hst chassis I have then. An 86 from heljan sounds great. I have a heljan 47 and it would pull a house down. You're right about top speed though. Shame really, as I have the space to stretch their legs.

I only really thought about a 225 set as I started gathering mk3's in gner livery and accidentally bought three or four mk4's. The light bulb moment was to run a set of each.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the feedback and ideas

Thanks
Dan
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby Bigmet » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:41 am

Dan,

OK then, my full frank and uncensored advice. Don't touch the sad old tat that is the Hornby 225 set. I am waiting for A.N.Other maker (Rapido, hope, hope) to take this on, and produce the high grade model that this subject deserves. (I still cannot quite believe that Bachmann went for the Blue Pullman - lovely model admitted, to the sort of standard I want - when there were both the 125 and 225 sets without 'current standard' models offering such huge livery lifetime potential; a far better tooling investment.)

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:10 am

Dan, had you thought of using a pair of Tenshodo SPUDs in ringfield bogie frames, should pull about 8 trailers without trouble. Two should work out cheaper than cannibalising a new loco. I'd put one in the loco's ringfield bogie and one in the DVT's blunt end bogie.
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby hairyhandedfool » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Buy a second motor and wire it in to the loco just like the first one. I did similar with a Hornby 86 and it easily hauled 8 (heavier) Lima Mk3 coaches.
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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby MickleoverTestTrack » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:18 pm

One of the remotor options for the 225 set is to stick a Bachmann 158 or 170 chassis underneath the buffet car.

Another thing I was going to try is a shortened Bachmann 150 chassis (older full chassis one) in the Mk4 DVT.

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Re: Hst vs 225 set compatibility

Postby dan8400 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:13 am

Great idea mickleover. I never thought of doing it in one of the coaches. Come to think of it, my voyager is powered by one of its coaches.

Do you know how the bogie wheelbases compare with the loco and mk3 coach you mention?

I will also look into the tenshodo motors bufferstop.

Thanks
Dan
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