Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

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Vonsworld
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:32 pm

Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Vonsworld » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Hello

I have some Triang wheels from a Blue Pullman and an EMU which I'd like to grind down so they will run on modern track.

At the moment the wheel flanges are too big so that they bounce along on the clips that attach the rails to the sleepers, and will not go over points smoothly.

I've tried taking one of the wheels off an axle, putting the open end of the axle in a drill chuck, and then running the flange against a metal file. I was also ready with some digital calipers to measure the results against a modern wheel.

However the flange simply made grooves in my new Wickes metal file, and the only metal filings to be seen were coming off the file and not the flange!! So no success there.

Perhaps the Triang wheels are very hard or the file was not up to the job.

If anyone has successfully filed down some wheels, please could you tell me what kit you used? Perhaps I should try a whetstone or similar?

Thanks :-)

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Mountain
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Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Mountain » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Probably an idea to see if you can find other wheels you can open up to fit the same axles. One type of those Triang wheels were cast and a very hard material. Will need a decent lathe to cope with that. My little lathe tool is only designed for wood and soft metals so is out of its depth like your file is. :mrgreen:
Some Triang wheels were not too bad in their profile.
Below is how I ran my collection of Triang locos. I'm not saying it is an ideal solution but it has worked well for me.
What I used to do was to adapt my pointwork to make them run both old and new stock. I did this by slightly deepening the flangeways with an old hacksaw blade, and I filed off the checkrails and replaced them with rail offcuts placed to allow for more play. I didnt have issues with the finer scale locos (Mainline, Replica and Bachmann). I did have issues with the Bachmann coaches which if they had couplings on the bogies would have run fine, but with the flex in the close coupling units they were prone to any track imperfections. I was so disappointed I sold them on and now I stick to Lima, Hornby older designs and the last years of Triang as the mainstay for my coaching fleet. While some of the Triang plastic wheels may need replacing, all else runs really well.
Be aware before you try to modify your points that you will be voiding guarantees and also I'm not sure newer pointwork will cope with making flangeways deeper. My Peco points are of an older design. They have changed them more then once since then. Buy old secondhand points for testing. That way you dont lose out should it not work as I dont want you to ruin good points should it not work for you.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:22 pm

If you have Triang cast metal wheels they will have been "case hardened" which makes them a right *********** to either grind or turn down. If you could grind them down you would then find them too thick to go through modern flange-ways, and because of the width of the wheels it's difficult to push them out on the axles to get the back to back measurement to 14.5mm. For rolling stock you can use modern Hornby wheelsets but you will need to open out the axle holes from the inside and push in brass bearing cups. There's a "basher's" alternative to the brass caps, which was used in less enlightened times, which was to push in the end of a matchstick whilst rotating the wheels by hand. The point on the axle making its own bearing hole in the soft wood. For locos it's either buy drop in replacement wheelsets from the likes of Ultrascale, buy driving wheels and Triang diameter replacement axles from Markits or find Hornby spare wheels and axles. For example the wheels and axles used in the current 0-4-0 chassis in most of the entry level models fit the earlier Triang/Triang Hornby 0-4-0s Nellie, Polly etc.
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b308
Posts: 4317
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby b308 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:14 pm

There are some "drop in" axle sets, such as this one (I think there are more but can't find them)...

https://www.ultrascale.uk/eshop/products/CAT007#TDCP

Vonsworld
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Vonsworld » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:35 pm

Thanks for your replies with some interesting ideas :-)

The new wheels from Ultrascale sound like the best solution, but very expensive, so I think I'll try a DIY solution first!

I've found an old Hornby HST 43 which is ok to use for spares, and the wheels look the right size, so perhaps I can try drilling the centres to fit the old Triang axles. Will the axles then be wide enough to give near 14.5mm back to back though? Guess I'll have to try it and see...

I've only had a wheel problem with the Triang Blue Pullman and EMU, since I found a solution for several of the other models The dock shunter, switcher and transcontinental locos I believe all use almost the same power unit, but Hornby carried on producing the dock shunter after the new track came into use. So if you can find a later version of the dock shunter, suitable for spares, it will have smaller smooth wheels that will also fit those other models :-)

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Mountain
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Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Mountain » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:54 pm

Before you disassemble your HST, try using the unpowered wheels from the dummy end instead. You can then replace these wheels with ordinary wagon or coach wheels in the dummy unit. Therefore you will get to keep the HST working and have the spares you need, or at the very least, keep the HST power bogie intact. I hope this helps.

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Ken Shabby
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Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Ken Shabby » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:36 pm

I assume the Blue Pullman wheels are identical to the ones on the Triang DMU ? . If so maybe the wheels on the one of the final batch of R.157 DMUs from the mid 70's might have less chunky flanges. There seems to be a trend on ebay for breaking up locos and selling them for spare parts, so maybe some wheels will turn up.
I have managed to get a couple of old Triang Hymeks and to run through Streamline points by altering the back to back measurements ,
I'm not sure how easy It would be to do this on the Blue Pullman, as I'm sure the axles are metal and not plastic like the Hymeks.
Ken

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Bufferstop
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Triang Wheel Flanges on Modern Track

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:47 pm

Good point there Mountain, if you take out the cast block from the trailing bogie it allows you put in pin point axles and leaves you with a spare pair of plain wheels and axles. Watch out for the bush insulated wheels if you push them out they can become rather wobbly. Push out the plain uninsulated wheels as well. Just remember these aren't new items, the plastics involved have had a couple of decades to loose their elasticity.
If you need a guide to what might work, I had an original bogie with knurled wheels and it ran on code 75 plain track without bumping on the chairs, but came to an abrupt stop when it hit the points.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
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