Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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Ken Shabby
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Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Ken Shabby » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:39 pm

Hi,
Do Hornby use the same motor in the ex Lima classes 121, 101 and 156 DMUs ?.
I only ask because I own 2X 121 bubble cars and although I'm happy enough with them, I wanted them to haul a tail load of one van (Dapol SR utility van or blue spot ex fish van) and they couldn't manage it.
I bought my son a Class 156 last Christmas and that ran like a dog and I've been looking at some Hornby 101 DMUs online, and I'm holding off getting one because If it is the same motor I can't see how It will have enough grunt to pull the a 3 car set.
I have a few old Lima DMUs and with a service and clean wheels I've had good performance from them.

Thanks Ken

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hairyhandedfool
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby hairyhandedfool » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:50 pm

The Hornby models have redesigned motors with a DCC socket attached. However, you would have to swap the chassis over as well, or get you modelling gloves on, as the mounting is different.
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Mountain
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Mountain » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:20 pm

I have both a Hornby and a Lima example. Expect the Lima version to pull way more then the prototype ever did. Lima would probably pull 8-10 coaches!
Other then fitting a decoder and a quick test before and after doing so I've not actually tried the Hornby versions pulling power so when you say yours struggles it is a concern.
I have Lima 101's and they pull far more then is required of them, and the older Hornby 110 does. The newer (Though it is over 10 years old with me) 110 made in China pulls itself as a three car set without any issues. My version came out before DCC sockets were fitted to them so I've no idea how the new new versions pull.
Bachmann DMU's I have pull OK as a two car set and I imagine they will pull OK as a 3 car as they dont seem to struggle.
If it is wheelslip which is causing them to struggle you can add weight to solve this issue.
It is a concern to hear they struggle as to be honest, they dont have a lot of weight to pull so I puzzle if a loco with the same drive like a class 37 or 47 etc could pull much? Anyone bought a railroad type loco recently with a single end drive notice if it pulls OK? I guess my newest models are about ten years old or older, apart from the odd 0-4-0 shunter for 7mm narrow gauge use, which pull well for their size and weight.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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SRman
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby SRman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:51 am

While the Hornby versions seem quite light in weight (easily fixed, though!), I can't say I have noticed the problem. I have several of the DMUs and have used the chassis to remotor and DCC some earlier conversions. A 121 chassis was fitted into my 3-car class 120 (Craftsman conversion) and has no difficulty at all with the three car set.

Bear in mind that the Lima motor bogies/chassis had fewer electrical pickups and had traction tyres.

I would say that if you are dissatisfied with the haulage power of your Hornby DMUs, try adding some extra weight - there should be sufficient room for quite a lot of weight in there.

For running qualities and smoothness, I personally would rate the Hornby items as streets ahead of the Lima ones.

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Ken Shabby
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Ken Shabby » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:31 pm

I agree the Hornby 121 is a very smooth runner and I have managed to run the blue one coupled to a 3 car Lima 117 set with smooth performance .
The 121s lack of haulage power isn't a huge issue and If you're stuck with a loco in your collection that's a bit weedy It may as well be a one car DMU.

I bought another 121 last Sunday, a green Lima one with small yellow warning panel, It's not here yet because Rails of Sheffield forgot to post it. :roll: , to be fair It was the bank holiday weekend.
Ken

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Bigmet » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:02 am

Hornby do not fit traction tyres to their design of motor bogie, that replaces the Lima design - which were always traction tyred - and there's the start of the problem. Lima's approach was to have fairly draggy pick ups, which traction tyred drive overcame, and Hornby hadn't altered these pick ups on the one model I have looked at. If that is still the case then altering the unpowered bogie to have low friction pick ups is the best move. The current motor bogie which is a perfectly good unit will then perform well.
Mountain wrote:...Bachmann DMU's I have pull OK as a two car set and I imagine they will pull OK as a 3 car as they dont seem to struggle...

I have the Bachmann Cravens class 105 as it is the appropriate DMU for my modelling interest, and the power unit is extremely capable. Once I had added seven Bachmann mk1 coaches to the first of the two car sets I had purchased and it still wasn't slowing down, there didn't seem much point in going further! (In reality the Cravens was horribly underpowered for the Kings Cross suburban services and a full passenger load often caused overheating on Down services with all the climbing oiut of KX over the 'Northern Heights'!) The really nice feature of the Bachmann BR MU's are the low friction bearings with pin point end pick up on all vehicles. These are incredibly free rolling.

Taking the tractive biscuit in BR DMU models though is Heljan, with their class 128 Gloucester parcels car. The mechanism is a centre motor all wheel drive in exactly the same style as their locos, and like the locos has a vast excess of traction.

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Mountain
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Mountain » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:54 am

I tend to be satisfied if the model can pull something equal to the real thing. With DMU's one does need slightly more as DMU's tend to be lightweight so they dont need much grunt to them, so if they can't even power themselves it is a concern!
A loco hauling wagons or coaches in 00 gauge generally tends to haul about half what the prototype can pull, though the real thing is rarely used in this way in general so it tends to suit our modelling needs.
I remember as a teenager testing my locos capabilities. I used wagons for this. I remember the top two locos that I had at that time were the two GWR kings which were both tender drive. One was a Hornby example and the other was a Lima example. Both managed 45 wagons and could pull a little more if I had not run out of wagons for them to pull. (This was before the days that Bachmann and Heljan were around and was before Hornby moved to China).
It would be interesting to find what different model locos can pull.
I remember when converting to DCC I had to find the stalling current of my locos. I had a couple that I just could not stall. I was more afraid to put too much weight on them so I just hard wired or plugged in decoders and hoped for the best!
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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Ken Shabby
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Ken Shabby » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:00 pm

Problem solved. :D
It was the pick ups on the unpowered bogie, they were too tight against the wheels and they could barely turn. I eased them slightly and the 121 can now pull It's tail load. I had similar problems with the pick ups on the tenders of the Railroad Black 5 and. 9F.
My Lima. 121 arrived this afternoon and It's a decent. runner.
Ken

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Mountain
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Mountain » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 pm

Glad to hear the problem has been solved. The Lima 121 may not run quite as smoothly but they work well. A good plan is to buy a few spares to keep them running in future years. I could do with doing this myself. Mind you, spares soon get used when one buys project locos cheap that need rescuing.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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Metadyneman
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Metadyneman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:03 am

Bigmet wrote:Hornby do not fit traction tyres to their design of motor bogie, that replaces the Lima design - which were always traction tyred - and there's the start of the problem.


It was very quickly realised when complaints started to roll in that the design of their bogie which replaced the lima drive unit was woefully inadequate in pulling anything other than itself and Hornby modified production to fit the drives with two traction tyres. Some of the earlier models are obviously still floating round on the second hand market and I have had two class 73's with tyreless wheels in the past. It is possible to obtain spare wheelsets from various spares stockists and replace them with tyred wheelsets if desired. Once so fitted they will easily pull a rake of 10 Bachmann coaches if you have the space for that many coaches. :wink:
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby GWR_fan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am

I have two BR blue Hornby class 101 3-car sets and one drive unit has tyres and one has not. Both were purchased new from the same dealer at the same time.

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Metadyneman
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Re: Hornby ex Lima DMUs

Postby Metadyneman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:54 am

GWR_fan wrote:I have two BR blue Hornby class 101 3-car sets and one drive unit has tyres and one has not. Both were purchased new from the same dealer at the same time.

Then I would suggest that the one without tyres is a slightly earlier manufacture than the one with tyres. Entirely feasible the two different types would have been on the shop shelf at the same time
A voice from the distance said unto me "Smile, things could be worse" so I smiled and lo, things did get worse!


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