Hornby trademark class 43

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
GWR_fan
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Hornby trademark class 43

Postby GWR_fan » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:21 am

Released in 2006 in a trainset, I am curious as to how long this prototype livery was kept. I believe it entered service in late 2005 and was intended to remain in this livery through 2006. I have not yet seen a photograph of the locomotive with Virgin livery coaches, did it run with these, please?

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Mountain
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby Mountain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:49 am

The Virgin HST's certainly was seen running on the rails in this livery. I saw them when they used to run a service into Swansea around 2002 to 2004. It was times to collect passengers from the Fishguard service which in those days terminated at Swansea, and depart three minuted before the Great Western HST left. The Wales and Boarders (May have been Arriva by then) service to Manchester would depart 5 minutes after the Great Western HST and it was almost an all stopper mopping up passengers who missed the other two trains!
While in West Wales the original HST's here in the old B.R. blue/grey livery had seven coaches and the Great Western HST's gained an extra coach to make eight, the Virgin Trains HST's lost a coach and ran with six coaches. This significantly improved their acceleration timings especially compared to the Great Western versions. The HST's themselves could most likely be run much longer again but at the price of acceleration and probably top speed, not to mention the extra fuel used to run with the extra weight. I believe the same original engines were used on other diesel classes?
Most HST's have had three different engines over the years. What puzzled me was Great Western, as no sooner then they had just rebuilt and refurbished their HST's around 2005 ish which were said to be ready to make them last a further 25 years in service, when someone made a decision to pull out all the engines and replace them with new American built engines. The new engines certainly run quieter and work well but what a waste of money to pay out for total rebuilds and then replace the newly rebuilt engines! I did notice many ex Virgin HST's, some being quite a state being towed towards Swansea Landor's depot to be totally refurbished and rebuilt into Great Western colours around 2006-2007. Some were seen to pass down the main line under their own power as a two power car set but with no coaches, and others were towed, usually two or three at a time behind another loco. Can't remember but I think it may have been a class 47 or the 47 rebuild (Class57) that towed them, but I think I recall a single Great Western HST towing some?
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Mountain
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby Mountain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:59 am

Just to avoid confusion for older members, the HST's used to be classes 253-254 and class 43 used to be allocated to the larger warship class if memory serves me correct! Is only in recent years HST's have been desegnated as class 43. I must admit it confused me at first!
Regarding the original query. Do you mean the HST powercars which were repainted a couple of years ago in their original colours in celebration of the HST's anniversary year which I believe was 2016?

Normally Virgin liveried HST''s ran with Virgin liveried coaches.
Wales and West/ Wales and Boarders and then Arriva did run some air conditioned MK2 coaches in Virgin livery as they bought them but didnt repaint them until mid way through the Arriva contract.
Any coaches Great Western (First Great Western) had from Virgin were quickly repainted, as I noticed Great Western would no sooner then finish all the repainting when they would start a new livery. They seemed to be always repainting!
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby philden » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:06 am

I think that the original poster was referring to the HST power car 43087 that was painted in Hornby livery in real life. Hornby released this as part of a Virgin train pack, but I believe the real loco was leased by Cotswold Rail.

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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:22 am

I thought that the original question provided adequate information - a class 43 in the Hornby registered trademark livery in 2006. It was 43087.

I will repeat my original question - how long did it run in this livery please and did it run with Virgin liveried Mk3 coaches?

The reference to '253' refers specifically to the original HST locomotive sets when released in the mid-1970's. As the original class 43 (modified Warship) class was disbanded around the 1970's then I see no confusion, as my reference was to 2006.

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Mountain
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby Mountain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:23 am

Ah. OK. Not sure as I only saw it on the railway press after it was painted. It was not seen on the rails down my way. It was funny when I saw it in the Hornby livery in the press as I initially looked twice as I thought it was a joke! Had to check the date!
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Bufferstop
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:39 am

Certainly did run in service in the Hornby livery, I spotted it several times at Manchester Piccadilly in the terminal platforms, so was most likely on a Virgin West Coast set. Virgin XC and later Cross Country sets mostly frequented the through platforms. Didn't they also do a 47/57 in the same livery, or was it an 86? Just can't keep up with all these changes. I can remember when a class 86 came through New Street separated from it's blue and dirty white train by a van still sporting "blood and custard"
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:56 am

Thanks to all for responses.

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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby luckymucklebackit » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:34 am

Bufferstop wrote:....... I can remember when a class 86 came through New Street separated from it's blue and dirty white train by a van still sporting "blood and custard"


Put that on an exhibition layout and see how many howls of derision it generates :D

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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby hairyhandedfool » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:19 pm

GWR_fan wrote:I thought that the original question provided adequate information - a class 43 in the Hornby registered trademark livery in 2006. It was 43087.

I will repeat my original question - how long did it run in this livery please and did it run with Virgin liveried Mk3 coaches?

The reference to '253' refers specifically to the original HST locomotive sets when released in the mid-1970's. As the original class 43 (modified Warship) class was disbanded around the 1970's then I see no confusion, as my reference was to 2006.


In September 2005, around a year after Midland Mainline's St Pancras-Manchester Piccadilly "Project Rio" services ceased, Cotswold Rail managed to hire two HST sets. 43087 was one of the power cars hired and received the Hornby livery at this point. It was regularly seen with another Cotswold Rail livery power car and eight Midland Mainline livery coaches. I believe they were hired for Railtour purposes. I've only ever seen one picture of it with a Virgin livery Mk3, but it was just one Mk3 and definitely not in service. The partnering Power car was always in Cotswold Rail livery. The lease lasted just under one year, ending in August 2006 , I believe they were required by First Great Western, to allow their powers cars and coaches to go through refurbishment and engine replacement, with the sets remaining there after the works had finished.
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Re: Hornby trademark class 43

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:58 pm

Many thanks, the information was exactly what I needed. Link shows the loco coupled to a Cotswold Rail class 43.

https://photos.smugmug.com/UKModernRail ... 3070-L.jpg


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