R6809; Which Era/Year?

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
mahoganydog
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R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby mahoganydog » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:56 pm

Hi all,

Been looking at R6809 but nowhere can I find which era/year when the designation "Hop 21" was first used.

Ideas anyone?

Jim
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GWR_fan
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:18 pm

From the Hattons website -

This product belongs to the following era(s):
UK rail era 5. BR steam. Late Crest: 1957-1966

TheObserver
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby TheObserver » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:55 pm

Also:
From the Hornby website: https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/br-21t-hopper-wagon.html

Scroll down the page to: Technical Specification & Detail

The Observer.
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mahoganydog
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby mahoganydog » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:06 pm

GWR_fan wrote:From the Hattons website -

This product belongs to the following era(s):
UK rail era 5. BR steam. Late Crest: 1957-1966


Thanks but that information I knew but it doesn't actually help. I've seen items advertised in that era but the lettering is extremely like TOPS. See Bachmann 37-712 as an example; if this is in era 5 it is extremely late in it as I seriously doubt that such lettering was around in 1957. It might even not be era 5 but early 6 instead.

It would be nice if manufacturers would indicate if a livery was early or late within a given era. Another example would be Bachmann 31-635A. The livery is actually 1941(?)-47 yet the era given is 1923-47.

I think you can see the problem I'm having, the eras used are just not accurate enough. I'm trying to keep everything "right" for 1960 when my layout is set.

TheObserver wrote:Also:
From the Hornby website: https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/br-21t-hopper-wagon.html

Scroll down the page to: Technical Specification & Detail

The Observer.


Thanks. It may not be suitable based on that. I wish they would SAY the year the livery actually starts rather than generalising with a decade.

Jim
In a world of fences and doors who needs windows and gates?

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6C
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby 6C » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:26 pm

"Post 1962" according to Larkin and Fidzcuk, from my research into BR/LMS 16ton steel minerals.

So say January 1963 - 1971 - when TOPS codes replaced this style of lettering.
Pete

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Jim S-W
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby Jim S-W » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:51 pm


Bigmet
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:10 pm

mahoganydog wrote: It may not be suitable based on that. I wish they would SAY the year the livery actually starts rather than generalising with a decade...

It isn't suitable. That style of identification panel is post 1964 - if it looks rather like TOPS, I believe it is because the style of letters and numbers continued to be used to apply TOPS information. (Bear in mind I know practically nothing about TOPS, as it has nothing to do with 'the real railway' that has retained my long term interest...)

How much I agree with giving the earliest known date of entry into service as a far more useful way of imparting the information about 'what goes with what'. And if an approximate date of '90% gone out of service in this style' were also provided, that would truly ice the cake.

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Bufferstop
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:36 pm

R6809 looks to me to be one of the ex Hornby-Dublo/Wrenn/Dapol/Hornby-Railways wandering wagons.
According to "Hornby Dublo Trains" by Michael Foster the 21T hopper wagon was introduced in October '63. Photo's of genuine HD made models, Oct 63 to April 64 or thereabouts, have a smaller panel with just the bottom two lines of text. Given the glacial speed of development at Binns Rd, the prototype wagon must surely have been around and probably still in production in 1960.
The general design goes back much earlier so is the 1957 date when A new batch was started? I think the expert on here is probably Pennine MC.
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mahoganydog
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby mahoganydog » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:31 pm

Hi all,

Thanks to all for all the information you have provided.

Bufferstop wrote:R6809 looks to me to be one of the ex Hornby-Dublo/Wrenn/Dapol/Hornby-Railways wandering wagons.


I don't think it is Hornby Dublo/Wrenn. These are very different and completely lack rivet detail though they are probably of the same prototype. I think it's an ex-Airfix item (have a look for "Airfix hopper" on ebay) though may be a total retool.

I'm going to keep an eye out and see if any other versions appear. I've picked up an R6725 which seems to be the earlier style information panel plus it's lettered Iron Ore. There were ironstone quarries in north Oxfordshire and my layout is set not far north of Oxford. Some of the real lines were filmed by Ivo Peters and if a model of his Bentley appears it might feature on my layout.

Jim
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Bufferstop
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Re: R6809; Which Era/Year?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:04 pm

These are very different and completely lack rivet detail

If the HD model released in '63 "lacks rivet detail" that's 'cos it's a model of the all welded version, which might be what's referred to as being introduced in '62. Looks like the riveted version would have been the batch started in '57, the differing dates are starting to make sense. If they had intended it to be the riveted one they would have put them in, the similarly shaped bulk grain wagon that was introduced earlier, had full rivet detail and was praised for it by all of the reviewers. I had one, that and the cattle wagon were the only two SD ones I had before selling all my HD stuff to move into TT3.
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