Small radius

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
Kerluk
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:32 am

Small radius

Postby Kerluk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:29 pm

:oops: The newbie question of the day: Can I run Hornby 0-4-0 steam locos on 300mm radius without any issue? Yes I guess but I'm not really sure...

Kerluk
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Re: Small radius

Postby Kerluk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:50 pm

Found an answer in this thread: Fourways - A Micro Circle. Thanks Dave.

Class08 01

Class03 01

These trains run on 10" radius !

Dad-1
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Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Small radius

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:35 pm

How tight a radius anything will run on is a fraught subject.
Most Manufacturers cover themselves by giving 438 mm as the
minimum, with the exception of 0-4-0's that do very strange
things !!
I do not keep a 'log' of what has and what won't run around my
garage layout 'St Oval', but there are some surprises. This layout
has a D shape with each 180 turn consisting of 1 x 3rd radius,
1 x 2nd radius and 2 x 1st radius. This week I took delivery of
a Hornby 42XX, with a 2-8-0 chassis, one should expect trouble.
However I've been running-in for periods up to 40 minutes and
not had a single derailment either forward, or reverse.

The trouble is you just don't know and if you only have 1 tight layout
it wouldn't make sense to try something you couldn't use if it wouldn't
go around !!

AHhhh The great Unknown !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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Bufferstop
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Re: Small radius

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:51 pm

If you use a transition curve, which Geoff has made from his three radii, you will often find a rigid chassis can be persuaded to take a tighter radius than expected. If you are laying your own track a degree of gauge widening can be built in especially where wheel tyre widths are generous, and no pointwork is involved.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Kerluk
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Re: Small radius

Postby Kerluk » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:40 am

Thanks for all your replies but...I totally forgot the couplers problem. I must check it very carefully. :oops: :o :roll:

b308
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Re: Small radius

Postby b308 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:32 am

No three link!! ;)

BTW Chris (Emmetman) is your expert on tight curves, name a chassis and he'll have tried it round his 10" curves!! :)

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Emettman
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Re: Small radius

Postby Emettman » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:33 am

Kerluk wrote::oops: The newbie question of the day: Can I run Hornby 0-4-0 steam locos on 300mm radius without any issue? Yes I guess but I'm not really sure...


Yes. I've several times used 250mm curves for special purposes.

As has just been mentioned, some thought to the couplings may be required.
And reverse "S" tight curves are a real no-no.

Various firms produced curves tighter than the Hornby or Peco R1.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Dad-1
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Re: Small radius

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:07 am

This has me thinking I should try making a tramway around the outside of
a dinner plate. I have the copperclad, I have enough scrap rail, I can pinch
a dinner plate when not being watched, so why not ?
For Hornby 0-4-0's, but I must manage to get 10 foot chassis wagons to go
around. Ideal for a dockland route around buildings ............ ?????

Time to try something different !! I'm no Emettman though !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Kerluk
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:32 am

Re: Small radius

Postby Kerluk » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:21 am

Thanks gentlemen.
I'm planning to use 300mm curves. And I also want to run a few wagons like this one:

WAGON.jpg

b308
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Location: North Worcs

Re: Small radius

Postby b308 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:46 am

One way round the coupling issue if you struggle is to remove a hook from one end, as long as your tracklaying is OK then it should still stay together using just the one hook and gives more leeway in the curve.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Small radius

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:45 pm

The couplers on curves problem doesn't have one single cause and cure. The big ugly lumps of plastic which Hornby puts on the ends of its own design wagons will, if not mixed with other types, work on really tight curves, especially if you remove the hook from the loco and are careful when propelling (pushing). As soon as you introduce them to smaller couplers you have problems with the hooks riding over both the face and side of the coupling loop then derailing the following wagon when taking a curve. If really sharp curves are involved it's best that all couplers are the same type, narrow ones need to be well proud of the line across the buffer faces free to pivot from side to side with enough springing to return them to the centre.
Ordinarily I try to get the coupler face to be in line with the buffers when pushed to the side. If you can do that with a Bachmann short NEM coupler, then replacing it with a long one will probably give you the extra clearance you need. Modellers of US designs and narrow gauge fans don't have buffers to contend with, and they have buckeye and centre buffer types to choose from. Unfair.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

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Emettman
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Re: Small radius

Postby Emettman » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:21 pm

If the curve is single-handed, for instance with a display circle or oval, there's the option of skewing the couplings to suit the curve. Simply pushing the hooks over a bit, in the first instance.
This does not work if there are other opposite curves on the layout, or the wagons get turned through 180 degrees at any point

If shunting is not required, and vehicles are to be operated in a rake, apart from at the ends of the rake bar couplings can be made which are neater and allow closer riding.
Especially with Hornby 4-wheel coaches if the buffers are removed except for the end-of-rake ones

For street trams or dockside/industrial railways, I don't know anyone currently making 16.5 mm inset track at reasonable prices.
(some very nice inset 9mm Tomix track for OO9!)

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

Thedoc
Posts: 3
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Re: Small radius

Postby Thedoc » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:04 pm

Hi,

You would be surprised just how tight a radius some locos can cope with. I've tested several small and medium sized locos (some of the latest models as well as much older ones) on Hornby 1st radius (approx 15"), Jouef (approx 12.75") and my own from flexi track (approx 10"). The results can be found at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSYyOab97HE]
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwyuWug-4U

(Sorry, new to this site, don't know how to make them hyperlinks)

The Doc

Kerluk
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Re: Small radius

Postby Kerluk » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:50 am

First thing first: Welcome aboard ! :D
Thanks for the links. They work fine.

b308
Posts: 5025
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Location: North Worcs

Re: Small radius

Postby b308 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:12 am

Bogie stock (such as diesels and coaches) will normally go round quite sharp curves OK as long as the bogies don't foul anything on the underframe. The only issue, unlike short 4 wheel stock, is that the overhangs make them look faintly ridiculous!


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