E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:54 am

I have received the pointed soldering iron tip but this would be so much simplier if the space where the componants are to be fitted was bigger. Then the vero board that the componants fit on could be bigger. As it is even with the pointed iron tip I'm still running into issues with solder leaking across the vero board tracks causing shorts. I gave in yesterday and moved onto adding more passengers as they had also arrived and tinning the axle pick ups ready for installation so at least some progress was made.
As mentioned previously, I need more seats for a 6th coach but unfortunatly the seller seems to have nothing for sale at the moment. I sent a message asking about more seats but have yet to receive a reply so the original target of 3 coaches is still in sight but perhaps 6 might be beyond me, at least using those same seats.
I'll need to cut more balsa and 2 pieces of vero board for the 6th coach but If I cannot get the seats I'll just concentrate on what I can finish in regards to the 5.
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:03 pm

I managed to get hold of a little thinner PROPER solder and that's made things a lot easier. The lead free stuff for such miniscule work is absolutley useless. I have made up the rest of the boards and all of them work connected directly to the track and light bar but I have run into other problems.
One out of 3 finished coaches works. One has a wiring problem on the board that needs looking at but the 3rd is because the wheels are not picking up any current even with the foil wrapped around the bush.
Unfortunatly after looking at my tester yesterday I realised it's not working properly even with new batteries so I need to purchase a new one (with an audible continuity buzzer this time!) so I can run the continuity tests in isolation and in situ as pulling off both wheel sets and the made up board each time there is a problem is a nuisance and is only going to cause problems.
I think the answer is to paint the back of the pick up wheel on each axle with conductive paint, painting over the bush to the axle but not along the axle.
The connecting wire that is soldered to the pick up spring from the board will hold the spring away from the painted end of the axle so the paint will not wear off.
No news from the seat seller yet either. This is starting to get quite expensive. :?
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby Roger (RJ) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:21 pm

Before you said you had used kitchen foil I tried using 3 amp fuse wire in place of the foil but it made the wheels run out of true. Perhaps if a tiny groove could be made for the wire to fit into in the insulator it might still be a workable option and probably a bit more robust than kitchen foil.

Hope the conductive paint works ok for you.

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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:56 pm

I've ordered the extra things I need and I am waiting for them to turn up to continue.
Circuit Works CW2000 Nickel Conductive Pen for drawing tracks on PCB 9ml nickel paint grey at the cheapest price I could find which was from ebay. This is to electrify axles for track pick up power.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201730361079? ... EBIDX%3AIT
A new multimeter with continuity buzzer and backlight. Not only for testing continuity on my competition entry but also other general electronics work.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191921991924? ... EBIDX%3AIT

I realised yesterday that the single fully working coach only had 2 passengers so I took it apart again and added more so now all coaches have a sufficient amount of passengers. They are quite full but as I will only run them in a rake of 3 or 4 it makes sense...to me at least. :D
One thing about using yellow LED's inside is that you can't really properly see the colours of clothing on the figures so I used a few of them in the colours they came in. Apart from some in glaring orange and yellow. :shock:
I still haven't recieved a reply from the seat seller and he has nothing on ebay at the moment so coach 6 may have to have it's internals scratchbuilt. If this is the case, and as I've not specifically stated that I will make 6 for the competition (erring on the side of caution at a stated 3 :lol: ) it may well have to wait as there is literally nothing built for it yet, even the light bar.
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby alex3410 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:00 pm

Let me know how you get on with the multimeter, mines knackered & the buzzer feature sounds like it would be really useful

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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Will do. :wink:
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:01 pm

Still no word from the seat seller on ebay despite multiple messages and he has nothing listed at the moment so I have had to plough on forgetting the 6th coach for now although the lower electronics have been made but I have still to make the light bar.
Although my original entry was 3 coaches I've managed to finish 5. :D
The 2 things that made it much easier were the new soldering iron tip, (mine was only heating one side of the tip as it's well used) and the Nickel Conductive paint pen. Using the foil through the bush was very hit and miss whereas using a paint brush with the conductive paint I could get it basically exactly where I wanted it.
A word of caution here!!..... Because the chassis's are made from quite hard and unflexible plastic you may find that you need to add some more paint once the wheels are installed as the wheels might move along the axles changing the back to back so make sure you check them after install if you remove them from the coach to paint them. Check both the back to back AND the continuity flow. If there's no continuity after just add a little more paint covering the forced break due to the wheels moving along the axle.
Yup. I'm FINISHED !! :D

And without further ado........ Here's my entry. :)
4WheelFinished1sm.JPG
4WheelFinished1sm.JPG (16.1 KiB) Viewed 930 times

4WheelFinished2sm.JPG
4WheelFinished2sm.JPG (44.73 KiB) Viewed 930 times


A close up picture showing the passengers.
4WheelFinished3sm.JPG
4WheelFinished3sm.JPG (46.41 KiB) Viewed 930 times


And 2 last pictures of them at the station.
4WheelFinished5sm.JPG
4WheelFinished5sm.JPG (44.08 KiB) Viewed 930 times

4WheelFinished6sm.JPG
4WheelFinished6sm.JPG (49.75 KiB) Viewed 930 times


Thanks to Alex for starting the competition and to everyone who helped me. It's been quite a learning curve but I now feel a little more confident with some aspects of modelling :)
And of course, good luck to all my competitiors. :mrgreen:
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby alex3410 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:34 pm

they look really good, its been fascinating following the progress of these :) - thanks for the detailed updates as well, lots of stuff to try out when i get around to trying this!

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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:36 pm

End2end wrote:A word of caution here!!..... Because the chassis's are made from quite hard and unflexible plastic you may find that you need to add some more paint once the wheels are installed as the wheels might move along the axles changing the back to back so make sure you check them after install if you remove them from the coach to paint them. Check both the back to back AND the continuity flow. If there's no continuity after just add a little more paint covering the forced break due to the wheels moving along the axle.


Some time ago I too discovered the inflexibility of these chassis. I don't think the plastic is any different to any of the other Hornby plastic underframes. I think it's the substantial footboard which stiffens the axleboxes. It requires additional pressure on the wheels to get them into the bearings which then upsets the back to back dimension. If you know about it it's no great problem. They were retooled at about the same time as Margate introduced the pin point axles with a square section centre between the moulded wheels with pressed on tyres. Seems to have all happened around the time that engineering quality hit rock bottom with the former Triang products. The moulded in coupler was introduced at the same time. It's hard to see where the changes saved much in materials or assembly time over the previous version which had a screwed on coupler, and came in versions with and without the foot boards, depending on whether it was for a goods wagon or a coach/brake van.
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:22 am

One last "tuck-in" if you like is that 1 or 2 of the coaches wobbly slightly.
I think it's where the wheels have ended up. They might not be properly centered on the axles even thought the back to back is correct. The wobbling was not checked before any improvements so they may have been like that already plus after putting them back together I realised I hadn't added weight to any of them using my usual method of lead flashing for the weight(s).
Although yes, this does kept the rolling stock on the track better, It's more to help rolling stock not become uncoupled when going over any magnets in my track for my BK uncoupling method and the 4 wheel coaches have the orignal Hornby couplings so don't use the same uncoupling method making weighing them down an almost mute point, for the uncoupling worry at least.
I may fix the wheels if it annoys me too much if not they are running ok without problems so I'll leave them as is for now.

NOW GO OFF AND IMPROVE YOURS! :D
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p.s. - - - - - - - - have I won yet? :lol:
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby nickbrad » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:42 pm

I missed this up until now as it wasn't where I expected to find competition entries, but I am glad I did find it before casting my votes. Some very good work here, congratulations on a wonderful result.

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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:36 pm

Many thanks for your kind comments nickbrad.
As my first foray into rolling stock improvements beyond the usual coupling changes I must say I'm quite pleased with how they came out even if a little yellow. :) It's the first time I have literally created an electronics project from scratch even down to cutting the vero board.
I'm sure the circuit could be improved slightly for dimmer lights using perhaps another resisitor if so wanted but building them was difficult enough for my inexperience even though I got there in the end(2end). :lol:

Also just a note of great thanks to everyone who helped me during this, my first competition build. :mrgreen:
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby TimberSurf » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:03 pm

Here's an idea I have been toying with, have always had this at the back of my mind for a pub, to have "Disco" lights (and sound, see my MP3 thread), and had assumed I would build several flasher circuits, though these days blinking LED's are readily available. Going out for a meal a while back with my grandson, we bought some "eggs", you know the ones that have really cheap and nasty toys in (without the chocolate), from a £1 dispenser, and to my amazement, the little plastic tank had two flashing LED's and a switch for on/off! Intrigued we bought some more and got a rubbery finger ring, with 3 built in flashing lights! Instant OO scale disco! As seen here http://www.lightgod.com/catalog/Lightgo ... Rings.aspx
You could run a "Special" part train (with suitable head boards) with a Disco at one end of a coach :D
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:18 pm

I think "DISCO" is about 20 years too early for my imaginary layout era. :lol:
Although I suppose it could be classed as a ROLLER DISCO!
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Re: E2e's 2017 4 Wheel Coach Competition Entry

Postby End2end » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:45 pm

One final post on this, my competition thread.

If you are considering improving your 4 wheel coaches the seller of the 3D printed seats I used has relisted them on ebay.
£2.20 for 12 (4 per coach = 3 coaches worth)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322443714161? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Just as a side note he also sells items in N and 009
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