Motor type question

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
b308
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Re: Motor type question

Postby b308 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:09 am

This site lists all the different Scalextric motors, in response to Bufferstop's post the early ones would appear to have been based on the XO4 motor.

http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/Catalog ... _Types.htm

muggins
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Re: Motor type question

Postby muggins » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:50 am

Bigmet wrote: ... If smooth and quiet is a high priority, I suggest skipping straight past all the old stuff, and buying the new and vastly superior goods.


I'd love to, Bigmet, but alas that's out of the question. This is a return to railway modelling after the best part of 60 years, and the pension dictates secondhand for as much of it as possible :(

b308
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Re: Motor type question

Postby b308 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:05 am

Modern small motors aren't expensive, though, and running is light years ahead of an XO4 or Ringfield.

What do you regard as expensive, bearing in mind that older models can cause just as many problems as new ones!

muggins
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Re: Motor type question

Postby muggins » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:26 pm

b308 wrote:What do you regard as expensive, bearing in mind that older models can cause just as many problems as new ones!

Well let's put it this way ... I fancy a class 0F Pug and an Austerity saddle tank. As I understand it, I can't buy a Pug new, and the going rate for a new Austerity is getting on for £100. For £100, I'm hoping to get the wood for the baseboards and a s/h Gaugemaster 100M. One reason why I needed to get the motor types clear in my head is so I can avoid buying anything s/h with a ringfield motor in it!

Let me bounce the problem back to you if I may :) If you wanted a couple of small locos for an industrial-type layout in 00, you had a thing about smooth running at low speeds and you were on a really tight budget, what would you go for and what would you reckon on that costing you?

b308
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Re: Motor type question

Postby b308 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:55 pm

Ha!

No good asking me as my interests are purely narrow gauge, but some of the others will be able to help... I'd see two approaches, however, one is cheap and cheerful such as the Caley Pug and it's clones using the can motor and can be bought so cheaply you can replace a duffer or the "quality" approach where you buy a good, realistic, model which will cost more but you will expect to last longer...

One thing I'd say is that you ensure that if it's secondhand you test it thoroughly which is why I hesitate to buy from Ebay or Swapmeets unless I know the loco involved and it's shortcomings... Some people suggest taking a 9v battery along to test it but all that does is tells you the motor works, not if it runs OK. To do the latter you need an oval of track, something that swapmeets and ebay don't provide.

For a Beginner I'd always recommend a shop if buying secondhand locos.

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Re: Motor type question

Postby mahoganydog » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:16 pm

muggins wrote:
b308 wrote:Let me bounce the problem back to you if I may :) If you wanted a couple of small locos for an industrial-type layout in 00, you had a thing about smooth running at low speeds and you were on a really tight budget, what would you go for and what would you reckon on that costing you?


The problem is that the current number of industrial locos made RTR is...one, the Austerity. Hornby are doing the Peckett which is out later this year.

This leaves the issue as to where and when your model will be set. If pre war the Peckett will be the only conventional choice apart from the Sentinel made by Dapol for Model Rail. Post war does open up other options apart from the Austerity; the Model Rail (Bachmann) USA tank loco, the Southern Railway bought some so maybe others found their way into industrial service? If you model late enough say into the sixties there would be a high chance of ex big four locos working in industry. Several ex-GWR panniers found themselves working for the National Coal Board while others worked on the London Underground.

Jim
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Bigmet
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Re: Motor type question

Postby Bigmet » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:30 pm

muggins wrote: ... I fancy a class 0F Pug and an Austerity saddle tank...

Ah, knowing it is these two is helpful. Both were originally designed by Dapol many years ago, and were far better models than the contemporary Hornby designs. You may luck into really good runners s/h; but if you don't there's no need to despair, they are easily adjusted if you are handy with small mechanisms. The usual trouble is that the motor and gear train mountings have not been cleaned of flash, and the assembly is 'rough and ready'. Dismantled, cleaned up and reasembled with the mechanism well aligned and all the pick up wipers making contact, they can be got to run well.

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Re: Motor type question

Postby muggins » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:00 pm

Gosh, chaps, this is really good stuff! :D

The one thing I think I've got right with the basic plan is that this is simply going to be a figment of my imagination, albeit hopefully a convincing one. The period will be anywhere from pre-WW1 to Beeching, but an industrial/colliery/dockyard type thing so I can run pretty much any eras at once, providing it still looks plausible(-ish). It was originally going to be 009 before I realised that 00 will be (a) more in line with my eyesight and dexterity nowadays, and (b) hopefully cheaper.

I'm OK with small mechanisms (ex-toolmaker, ex-working jeweller and ex-electronics assembly), but nowadays I only have hand tools plus the Dremel. Apart from a fondness for them from my trainspotting days, the main attraction of the Pug and the Austerity is the short overhangs: this layout will have 1st rad curves on the bit you don't see :wink:

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stuartp
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Re: Motor type question

Postby stuartp » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:31 pm

If you're looking for 0-6-0 tank engines or diesel shunters then none will have a Ringfield, Hornby only ever used them in tender drive units or diesels. Lima, Airfix and Mainline all used their own design of Ringfields in tank engines though, steer clear of these as the best that can be said about them is that Mainline's wasn't always terrible. Early Bachmann J72s and 03s have them as well, not sure about later releases.

Secondhand (and away from Pugs and Austerities) , you could do worse than one of these [Edit - ignore that as it happens, see below !]
Last edited by stuartp on Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigmet
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Re: Motor type question

Postby Bigmet » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:57 pm

Hazard warning: the Bachmann 57xx started off on a split chassis mechanism. Runs well if in good nick, but a s/h purchase is likely to be on its last legs sionce they ceased manufacture nearing twenty years ago: they are short life constructions as key parts wear out and plating wears through; the same applies to the J72. Aditionally, seen evidence of all too many bottomfeeders out there selling 'Bachmann 0-6-0T' yet the mechanism turns out to be a Mainline one, which is of the ringfield persuasion, the bodies and mechanisms being interchangeable on these types.

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stuartp
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Re: Motor type question

Postby stuartp » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:10 pm

Thanks Bigmet, hadn't realised the Bachmann Pannier was quite that old !
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mahoganydog
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Re: Motor type question

Postby mahoganydog » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:40 pm

Hi all,

The easiest way of telling if a loco is split chassis is if there are no wiper pickups. I picked up a 4MT at a show for quite a bit less than it was worth because the seller didn't know there was uprated version! Look for NEM couplings too, these were never fitted to the old split chassis models as far as I know.

Jim
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Bufferstop
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Re: Motor type question

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:22 pm

Hi, I can happily endorse the comments of others re the 0F and the Austerity, I have both, plus the J94 version of the Austerity. They are excellent slow runners, although the Austerities tend to be a little noisy. If you can stretch it to a light railway rather than industrial you can also include the Terrier from the same stable. They all use the Type 7 motor and come with an instruction sheet which gives a ridiculously short lifespan for the motor. Ignore it, it's just a case of Hornby covering their backsides if one does fail early. My 0F must have clocked up 10 times the stated figure and the only thing to have worn out is the plating on the wheels, but spares are available. Dapol did a good job designing them, they were streets ahead of Hornby's offerings at that time.
There's another mechanism that gives good slow speed running, it's the Bachmann Junior 0-4-0. It's their version of "Percy" from their Thomas range re-packaged as an industrial called Greg and fitted with a DCC decoder. It needs to lose it's steps which are far too wide but a lick of paint and some grime looks quite at home in the sidings. It uses a motor even smaller than the Type 7, which seems almost unburstable, Dad-1 uses the Percy version on his Thomas exhibition layout, and much prefers them to the Hornby version.
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muggins
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Re: Motor type question

Postby muggins » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:29 am

stuartp wrote:If you're looking for 0-6-0 tank engines or diesel shunters then none will have a Ringfield, Hornby only ever used them in tender drive units or diesels.

:? Funnily enough, I've just now been looking at this http://www.hattons.co.uk/230089/Hornby_ ... etail.aspx So do I take that to mean somebody's put a ringfield motor in it, in which case, what do they mean by the "standard" in brackets?

Bufferstop wrote: If you can stretch it to a light railway rather than industrial ...

Oh blimey I hadn't thought of that! :roll: Love it! I can combine both - and run a railcar/railbus type thing! Thank you very much indeed for that suggestion :D

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Re: Motor type question

Postby b308 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:03 am

I'm not 100% certain but if you are going to use 10" curves as Chris suggested you may struggle for that one to get round it comfortably, you'd be better sticking with 0-4-0 and short wheelbase 0-6-0 such as the J94. I thought all (modern) Hornby's 0-6-0s used a separate motor not a ringfield or am I out of touch!


I nearly suggested a Light Railway earlier as an option to 009. They didn't tend to use really sharp curves though, that was mainly industrial and dock locations... Much more variety than purely industrial and "anything goes" loco-wise. The last alternative is a "preserved" line...


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