Hornby 4Fs?

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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flying scotsman123
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Hornby 4Fs?

Postby flying scotsman123 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:39 pm

I've a feeling I may be being a bit thick here. Looking for a 4F for a project, not worried about detail level. There is of course the airfix/GMR tender drive one, most of which I've seen have rotting traction tyres and generally probably not what I'm looking for, even the chap in Cheltenham model shop didn't recommend it, and he had three of them on his shelf!

After that I get confused. In my mind there was a loco drive railroad version that might even have been DCC ready but I can find no mention of this. There also seems to be a hornby branded tender drive one, which I presume is basically the same as the airfix one? Or would I be doing it a disservice? And I think I've seen a newer loco drive one that isn't Railroad but is expensive? I'm getting a tad confused here. Is there anyone who could give me a quick run down of 4Fs around, loco/tender drive, and perhaps comments on performance and DCC friendliness? As I said not worried about detail or looks in the slightest.

Thanks in advance... :?

Edit - alternatively, can anyone recommend any other locos with the same wheelbase and wheel diameter?
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skyblue
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby skyblue » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:39 pm

I have an Airfix 4F (tender drive) which runs beautifully. It is a little noisy but it is a powerful and smooth runner. Having said that, the previous owner (who I know) will have looked after it very well I am sure, and may well have done some major maintenance (he detailed it nicely). I realise you were wanting info on the Hornby loco but I thought I'd share this anyway.

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:50 pm

According to the Hornby website the new loco drive version is imminent. It's R3313 - RRP £99.99. All previous versions were the Airfix tender drive.
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flying scotsman123
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby flying scotsman123 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:08 pm

Bufferstop wrote:According to the Hornby website the new loco drive version is imminent. It's R3313 - RRP £99.99. All previous versions were the Airfix tender drive.


Thanks Bufferstop, just what I wanted - well, sort of, I'd have liked better news! Surprising that the tender drive version survived for so long.

Were there any improvements at all after Hornby got hold of the airfix one, or did they literally just keep churning them out (much like the MR and LMS after them)?
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Free_at_last
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Free_at_last » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:35 pm

The Hornby loco drive 4F was announced in 2011, using the old body on a new chassis. I think it was about £20 more than the all new Bachmann 4F.
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:14 pm

This exchange from their forum suggests that the 2011 example was tender drive.

The reason I ask, is because I have seen a nice example of the Airfix model for sale at a good price, and wondered if there was any real difference in the basic models. It is mainly the mechanism that I am most bothered about. I wondered if Hornby had made any alterations to the tender drive.
Posted at 20:50:22 Sun, 20 Nov 2011
markSandD
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Apart from new running numbers and a slightly better finish nothing
Posted at 12:06:58 Mon, 21 Nov 2011
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Free_at_last » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:43 am

The Hornby 2011 announcements included
The following items are based on existing body tooling but with updated loco drives:
BR (Late) Fowler 2P (Loco Drive)
S&DJR Fowler 2P (Loco Drive)
BR (Late) Fowler 4F (Loco Drive)
LMS Fowler 4F (Loco Drive
)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/27580-hornby-2011-announcements/
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:22 am

flying scotsman123 wrote:... Is there anyone who could give me a quick run down of 4Fs around, loco/tender drive, and perhaps comments on performance and DCC friendliness? ...

In addition to the Airfix origin 4F which has been covered in its variations to present production by Hornby, there is a 4F from Bachmann; DCC ready, represents a Midland built example, runs well.

flying scotsman123 wrote: ... alternatively, can anyone recommend any other locos with the same wheelbase and wheel diameter?


Also with the 'Derby standard' 8'+8'6" wheelbase, 5' 1" - 5'3" diameter wheels, all loco drive:
Bachmann: MR 3F, SECR C class (DCC ready, excellent runners. Being smaller locos than the 4F the motor is mounted lower down which can be handy for other models.)

Hattons/Heljan: Garratt - you get two motor units! (Couldn't resist mentioning this, not very practical really and only s/h now.)

Hornby: Q1 (DCC ready, excellent runner. The very high mounted motor and BFB wheels probably make it unsuited to use on anything else.)

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:29 am

Hornby contradicting itself, or giving out simply wrong information,. Surely not :wink: Did anyone here buy a 4F between 2011 and now?
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:27 pm

Not me, but a friend did. Very clearly exactly the same bodywork mouldings as the Airfix tender drive model; but with a newly tooled loco mechanism, and very sweet running. This was one of the Hornby products that came out in the declining days of supply from the Sanda Kan operation, and they sold pretty quickly is my recollection, and no further runs have been produced since the move to the many smaller outfits that now do Hornby's manufacturing.

I imagine that it is quite a way down Hornby's future re-release list, because of what it is up against in the way of competition. For a start there's the Bachmann 4F, (of the MR rather than LMS version, but how much will that bother most customers?) with tooling made roughly forty years after the Airfix, and it shows! And then there's the other nine 0-6-0 types now produced RTR, most of these also significantly more recently tooled with all the benefits that brings. LMS 3F, LNE J11, J15, J39, GW Dean, 2251, SR 700, C, Q1.

If Hornby's recent all-new J15 and 700 releases have done the business for them, I would expect more all-new toolings in the 0-6-0 line, of subjects never previously available RTR.

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby flying scotsman123 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:41 pm

Thanks for the advice, a Bachmann 3F looks like an excellent alternative, cheers.

If anyone's interested, it's destined to become either an NSR H or H1 class, depending on whether I fancy cutting out the Belpaire firebox or not! I'll post something up about it when I get round to it, but could be a little while yet!
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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:54 pm

The later release Hornby loco drive does run very well. I purchased an LMS version a year or two ago and apart from the high retail price it is a nice locomotive (fortunately the loco was on a clearance sale at a reduced price). For some reason this locomotive costs as much as a much better detailed Bachmann version. The Bachmann would be the preferred option.

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:54 pm

flying scotsman123 wrote:...If anyone's interested, it's destined to become either an NSR H or H1 class, depending on whether I fancy cutting out the Belpaire firebox or not! ...

Not knowing the dimensions of these designs, there may just be 'something closer' and with a round top boiler from the selection of C, J15 and 700 classes. It will be interesting to see what you do.

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby flying scotsman123 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:17 pm

Thanks Bigmet, I think I'll stick to the 3F, significantly cheaper than the others, for something I'm potentially going to be hacking around with quite a bit depending on how close it is an extra £30 or so seems like a lot for something that might only possibly be a bit closer, and even then still may require some changing. As I said leaving the Belpaire firebox on would still be accurate just for a slightly later development, so it depends on if the motor would fit/how adventurous I'm feeling. I've got a little hornby 0-6-0 to try my first loco conversion on, bit less of a risk! Turning a Jinty into one of these:

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Re: Hornby 4Fs?

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:18 pm

Buy a real old clunker for its chassis block. Equip it with Romford wheels and axles, their frame bushes fit the old axle holes and you can choose the best motor to fit. It would be a much better job and still cost less than a new 4f.
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