A cuckoo in the nest

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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A cuckoo in the nest

Postby UrbanHermit » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:22 am

My daughter, bless her, decided in the goodness of her heart to club together with her husband and give me a locomotive for my birthday. To her a loco is a loco is a loco, and I suspect "the man in the shop" (she didn't say which shop) may have taken advantage. I am now the proud possessor of Hornby R.2081, a limited edition tender drive Black Five in very early BR livery, which a little research tells me was released way back in 1992. I can hardly say it's new, but it is unused. I can't help imagining the man in the shop saying "Phew! Got rid of it at last!" as the door closed.

Now obviously it's the thought that counts. I do appreciate her intentions, and I'm not about to ditch it. I can overlook stuff like having no stock to run it with realistically, and the level of detail not being what we've become used to, but there are practical difficulties. Like having to fit a decoder.

There was a time when I would have taken it straight to a shop, but a man whose soldering is now up to wiring a control panel with 140 soldered connections ought to be able to hard-wire a decoder, right?

Only thing was, once I'd got the tender body off (easy peasy - why can't they make them so simple to remove these days?), I was a bit baffled. I've never seen a loco with so little wiring inside.

black5s.jpg (112.01 KiB) Viewed 1400 times

Turns out that it's the kind of Ringfield motor (thank you, Flashbang, and your web pages) where the left brush strip is live to the chassis via its retaining screw, which means either replacing the screw with a nylon one or doing some very fiddly insulation work. Also, the decoder's red wire has to be fixed to the chassis somehow.

Any thoughts or advice on all this, like where I can get a suitable tiny nylon screw, what sort of decoder would be good, or any other hints and tips?
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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:53 am

The decoder; if you expect refined operation, you need a good decoder with a ton of control adjustments to make this perform well, especially at low speed. (These motors tend to poor torque so want to be spinning fast, top end speed is no problem.) I'd go for a Zimo with 2A peak current capability.

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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:24 am

When you have the chosen decoder, conversion to digital will be simple. As you say, replace the left hand cover securing screw with a nylon screw (Petersspares have them). Cut the right hand wire in the photograph and remove the copper spade connector from the right hand brush retainer and solder a length of wire to the spade connector. The end with the connector will fit to a moulded tab on the front or rear of the metal drive casting. The other end of the wire will be your right hand rail wire on your decoder. The wire that you removed the connector from will become your left rail wire on your decoder. The two motor wires from the decoder then solder to their respective brush retainer strips. Easy as pie!!!!!!!!

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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby End2end » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:24 am

Taking a stab in the dim light (rather than the dark because I think I am correct). One thing not mentioned was to remove the capacitor.
As far as I am aware, you do not need the capacitor as it will interfere with the decoder.
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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby bob hughes60 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:54 am

To guide you further it would be useful to know if the screws holding the brush holders (chrome in your model) are:-

1) the same size
2). One usually the LH one is longer and goes into the chassis

This makes a slight diffrence to how to DCC it.
Same size screws I merely use plastic washers so that the screws are isolated but do check for continuity with a multimeter.

Diffrent size then the long screw needs replacing with a nylon one to isolate from the chassis.
I use Zimo MX623 decoders and have had no problems with my black 5.
I can supply details of plastic screws and washers from modelfixings.co.uk
Once isolated you solder orange and grey wires to brush holder arms.
Red wire from decoder to red spade connection from tender -I don't cut off the spade connector-just clean,flux and solder then insulate with tape.
If you look to the top left of the motor unit you will see a a small raised rectangular area. I attach a spade connector to this to give a connection to chassis and black wire from decoder solders onto this.
Saves drilling chassis for screw connector.Hornby did do these as X1193 bridge wire.Hope this is some use.Just shout if you need photos etc.
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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby UrbanHermit » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:51 pm

Thank you, folks. I think I know what to do now. And yes, Bob, a photo or two would be interesting and helpful. I haven't checked that screw yet, but with my luck it's bound to be the longer kind.

By the way, the livery is rather interesting. You can see in my photo that it differs from the standard BR mixed traffic livery in that the firebox is lined, and the lining on the cab side goes right up to the roof instead of forming a panel below the windows. This aroused certain suspicions, which a check in my much-loved The Big Four in Colour has confirmed.

Right at the beginning of BR, when they were deciding what liveries to standardise on, parades of locos painted in various proposed styles were held in front of the chairman of the British Transport Commission for assessment. Before one of these Robert Riddles, who'd started his career on the LNWR, instructed Crewe Works on the sly to do "a proper paint job" on an extra loco, in other words to paint it in LNWR livery. When this unscheduled extra was trotted out at the end of the next parade the BTC Chairman's reaction was "Riddles, you b*stard!", but such an impression was made that the livery was adopted for mixed traffic types.

This is a model of that locomotive, though there is one little niggle. The LNWR livery included a thin black line forming a panel on the buffer beam between the buffers. No 45292 was given this, but it's missing on the model.
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Re: A cuckoo in the nest

Postby RAF96 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:14 am

Peter's Spares do their own version of the nylon screws, but be aware they are a different thread to the ringfield and you have to use the motor as a die to modify the screw thread.
In a bit and back off, in a bit more, ad finitum just like tapping a metal thread.
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