Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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flying scotsman123
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby flying scotsman123 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:02 pm

Pennine MC wrote:
flying scotsman123 wrote:[

Doesn't say, it's signed just as BRM I think.


Ah, very brave. A mate of mine reckoned he'd seen much the same comment on the forum.


I went on the forum once.
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Pennine MC » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:54 pm

flying scotsman123 wrote:
Doesn't say, it's signed just as BRM I think.


Having seen it today, it's stated to be by 'our industry insider'.... way to go if you want to invite folk to draw conclusions...

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby End2end » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:12 pm

Pennine MC wrote:I went on the forum once.

I did too the other day....albeit it was BLANDFORD FORUM :shock: :lol:
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Pennine MC
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Pennine MC » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:10 pm

Not my quote, E2E - would you mind editing, please?

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby End2end » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:13 pm

Pennine MC wrote:Not my quote, E2E - would you mind editing, please?

OK yes It was Flying Scotsman123 I should have quoted. Oops :roll:
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:41 pm

I'm glad you did that end2end it has demonstrated the need to be careful when editing quotes, to delete the right pair of tags, an easy mistake to make but can have potentially disasterous consequences. :)
I have heard in the last few days of a guy who having received a flaming email from a colleague added his bit saying " more lies (true) I'm ignoring it".-------THEN CLICKED REPLY NOT FORWARD. Despite the truth of his assertions he's suspended waiting a decision on gross professional misconduct.
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Pennine MC
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Pennine MC » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:03 pm

End2end wrote:[. Oops :roll:


Ta :)

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Black-Marlin » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Just read the BRM article. It makes me really very cross: taking a magazine page to attack Hornby, and doing so behind a curtain of anonymity? When we are given no name we are provided with no credentials, and with no credentials we have no choice but to see this as nothing more than personal spite. It's not what I buy the magazine for. Since when did a magazine about toy trains require lessons in journalistic ethics?

When I make criticisms I understand the moral requirement to put my name to them, so:

BRM, including that bilious diatribe was a shockingly misguided editorial decision, and deserves nothing but the contempt of those who read it.
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:41 pm

Black-Marlin wrote:Just read the BRM article. It makes me really very cross: taking a magazine page to attack Hornby, and doing so behind a curtain of anonymity?


I rather suspect the anonymity is in order to invoke the same getout as a letters page - 'views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the publisher'.

Most of it is frankly amusing and carries no more weight than the average forum posting, but the bit I thought below the belt was the complete 'straw man' that Hornby are struggling with research into the MN's detail variations and should ask the enthusiast community for help. Has there ever been any suggestion, credible or otherwise, that this is the case? Given their performance with the existing Bulleids over the last decade and a half, especially the permutations of the Light Pacifics, I'd be more inclined to think they're well on top of the job.

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby skyblue » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Pennine MC wrote:Given their performance with the existing Bulleids over the last decade and a half, especially the permutations of the Light Pacifics, I'd be more inclined to think they're well on top of the job.


I agree - I think they would be asking for trouble to ask for help from enthusiasts as they'd be inundated with responses, some of which I'm sure would be useful, but many of which would add very little or may be downright incorrect.

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:42 pm

skyblue wrote:
Pennine MC wrote:Given their performance with the existing Bulleids over the last decade and a half, especially the permutations of the Light Pacifics, I'd be more inclined to think they're well on top of the job.


I agree - I think they would be asking for trouble to ask for help from enthusiasts as they'd be inundated with responses, some of which I'm sure would be useful, but many of which would add very little or may be downright incorrect.


Quite so; and given what I've heard, to the effect that one firm have tried that avenue and backed out of it, it makes me question whether the said 'industry insider' is actually all that clued up. This idea of active input from forum members being *such* a good idea seems to have originated with the Dapol Western, but my feeling is that it's far from being a panacea.

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby edgehillroad » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:07 pm

Hornby have been around all of my 71 years on planet Earth so I don't think they need help from some of the self opinionated clowns that write in magazines, some of these model railway magazines are so full of misinformed garbage that I am surprised people still waste their money on them, I do still buy railway magazines but only Steam World and Heritage Railways, I haven't bothered with model railway mags since they started giving glowing reviews on dud locos and drove me nuts with their stupidity regarding super detail, the stuff most modellers I know keep in the little plastic bags that come with the loco.
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby jivebunny » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:54 pm

As someone who's spent a good quarter of his life in France, it's all too clear to me the damage that can be done to the hobby when a major manufacturer stops supplying retailers with stock. In Lima/Jouef's case it was down to bankruptcy rather than greed / business choice, but the model shops stopped receiving stock almost overnight and that was that. A year on many of them had closed down and made way for other small businesses. At the time there were no other major manufacturers producing French-outline stock in H0 scale, and N was never popular over here (and still isn't - I have yet to meet anyone who models in it although it's present at shows etc). No stock = no more sales. No sales = no more shops. No shops = no new customers. The casual hobbyists and collectors inevitably moved onto railway simulators / flight simulators / other hobbies due to lack of available stock. And of course when things did get going again with new manufacturers appearing and Hornby's slow revival of Jouef, fewer customers meant less demand, so higher prices, so less demand, so higher prices, etc ad infinitum.

There are now just a handful of railway-focused model shops across the country outside of Paris*, and those that have survived had to diversify by making plastic kits, model cars and R/C boats / aircraft / land vehicles their main business. Apart from a couple of "rail emporium" style shops in Paris*, the stock of railway models that can still be found in the remaining retailers I've been to since I moved back here in 2012 is extremely limited and very highly-priced. My latest giggle was a 250€ / £180 price tag for a "rame reversible" - i.e. two coaches and an unpowered driving van. That's £60 per coach, or double the price of a modern, high-standard Mk1.

In my experience the French have always had far less interest in the railways (model or otherwise) than the British, but most of my (male) friends still had train sets when I was in France in my early teenage years. Now the hobby is essentially dead to anyone but the serious modeller, and in my day-to-day life here since coming back I've never met anyone in their late 20s / early 30s who has an interest in model railways, in fact they've never even seen N scale trains and are fascinated by the size of my "tiny British trains" when I get deliveries at work.

It would be a great shame for Hornby to make a deliberate move to withdraw their stock from retailers' shelves. Due to the presence of other manufacturers the market would probably survive better, at least in the short term, than it did in France, but not in the long term as this will kill off "new blood". Let's face it - how many railway-oblivious parents go into shops looking to buy a Bachmann train set for their child?

I'd be very worried for the hobby if Hornby decided it didn't need to have its products on shelves, and I'd be rather worried for Hornby itself as I think they're being a bit naive if they expect the clueless parent to spend £150 in their online shop on a product they can't see / feel / look at before committing to it, when for the same price they can go into their local GAME or HMV and have a demonstration / play of the latest handheld games console.

* Paris has a completely different market. Anyone who has the money to a) rent / buy a place in Paris with enough spare space for a H0 model railway and b) also actually spend money on model trains on top of that is definitely not in a position where they need to keep an eye on spending as most of us find ourselves doing.

JB

edgehillroad
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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby edgehillroad » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:25 pm

A very interesting reply jivebunny so lets hope the powers to be at Hornby wake up before its to late.

There are more and more American layouts on display at shows so I would expect many British modellers will follow suit and make the switch to American, cheaper, better runners come with all the bells and whistles and with enough power to pull a house down, its already happened here in Australia, there was a time when Triang and Hornby were by far the cheapest and most readily available model trains in Oz but these days there has been a complete 360 with the vast majority of modellers building American or Aussie layouts.

Its not impossible that if Hornby want to play silly games that British modellers may eventually go the same way, I myself spent a lot of time modelling American but as I got older I got sentimental over what I grew up with as a kid in England, I moved back to British OO but I do know first hand that American HO is a very viable alternative especially with younger modellers that have no interest in steam.
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David.

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Re: Have Hornby Lost the Plot

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:41 pm

Hornby should look back at the reasons that the successors to Rovex manufactured Triang now have the name of Hornby to trade under. The slippery path to extinction began (IMO) with Meccano refusing to allow more than one Hornby dealer in a town and controlling supplies in a clumsy and heavy handed style that would have disgraced some former communist governments, not helped of course by their stupid decision to continue with 3 rail electrics when production restarted after WW2.
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