Hornby loco randomly stops

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
Bradlel3
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:19 pm

Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:56 pm

Hi I'm just new to the forum. I have a hornby lms 2-6-4 tank, number 2300. It will run for one or two loops and then stop like the power has been switched off. It's not always the same place. I have run other hornby locos around and they are fine. I would really appreciate ideas on solving this?

GWR_fan
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:15 am

When a loco regularly stops after just a few loops then one must consider the possibility that the loco amperage demand is shutting off the power supply trip circuit. Possibly the loco is drawing too much power for the power supply that you have. This may require a look at the loco to see why it is drawing excess power. Could be a mechanical resistance (possibly needs a clean and service) or could mean a replacement motor is required.

As a test, place two locomotives on the rails (the suspect loco plus another known loco) and then run. If the suspect loco stops, does the other loco still run or shutdown also. If both stop then this would indicate a power supply trip. If the other loco continues to run then you need to service the suspect loco.

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bigmet » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:03 am

I support that as the most likely cause, and the suggested test is a good one. Does the 2300 eventually restart without any assistance from you? If so, almost certain that it is the controller cutting out.

If on the other hand you get the effect when running two locos of the 2300 stopping and the second loco keeping going, my thoughts would be poor pick up on the 2300, or a poor wiring connection from pick ups to motor.

GWR_fan
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:08 am

Does the 2300 have the X04 (ex-Tri-Ang), Hornby type 7 (open frame) or black can motor?

Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:29 pm

hey,
thanks for getting back to me. i used a hornby class 08 and the 2-6-4 for the test. Both loco's moved slowly and then came to a halt. in the same way as the 2-6-4 would if it was the only loco on the loop. When i turn the power controller wheel off to no power, and start increasing the power again neither will move. The loco will need to be removed from the traffic or un-plug the controller.
I have serviced the 2-6-4 engine. All wheels are clean. The pickups are clean and the wires are all well connected. i've tested the motor, X04, and cleaned it and it runs well. The same issue happens with the hornby pannier tank with an X04 motor.
Would i need to get a new controller?

whufcfan
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Location: Towcester

Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby whufcfan » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:47 pm

Is your controller the Hornby R965 with the small red knob? If so, that will be your problem, they are junk, I have had them cut out with a loco that came in the same boxed set as the controller.

Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:31 pm

Hey,
My controller is a blue Lima controller. Works great with the other logos. The hornby controller I have is the new grey version and nothing moves with that one.
I will post a picture up of the lima controller later on. what would be the best controller to have on DC to test locos?

The motor is a hornby x03. apologies for the mix up. i'm really at the start of the learning curve for maintenance etc.
Would this be the main problem?

Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:39 am

Here is a picture of the lima controller.

Optimized-DSCF4166.JPG
lima controller
Optimized-DSCF4166.JPG (421.85 KiB) Viewed 1360 times

Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:40 am

here is a picture of the wiring in the 2-6-4
Optimized-Optimized-DSCF4154 (1).JPG
2-6-4 wiring
Optimized-Optimized-DSCF4154 (1).JPG (318.6 KiB) Viewed 1360 times

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:45 am

Have you tried running it without the body, just in case all those bare wires are shorting on each other or the chassis. It may be of course that you just removed the insulation for viewing purposes.
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Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:48 am

RAFHAAA96 wrote:Have you tried running it without the body, just in case all those bare wires are shorting on each other or the chassis. It may be of course that you just removed the insulation for viewing purposes.


Thanks RAFHAAA96. I have been testing the loco without the body. where should the insulation go on the wiring? each of the solder joins? And would electrical tape work?

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:17 pm

Cover any bare wires. Make sure each wire is separated from the rest, don't just tape them up as a bundle.
Insulation tape is fine. Shrink tube is better but you would have to unsolder/re-solder at a joint to get it on first, although looking at your picture you could fold back each capacitor wire along the 2 attached wires and sleeve each of those with shrink wrap tube.
The essential thing is to keep each wire away from the other and keep all wires away from other metal parts.
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Bradlel3
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bradlel3 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:33 pm

thanks rafhaaa96.
I've tried the advice and the loco is still producing the same result. So it is something i'm will probably put to the side for now and get the layout completed.

I know from reading the posts that a loco which doesn't run well on DC will not improve on DCC. In the case of this loco, if i get a DCC system, which is the plan in the near future, could a decoder that can handle the amps be able to solve this problem?

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bigmet » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:59 pm

The decoder must have a high enough current spec., and the DCC system must produce enough current for all the locos you want to run simultaneously.

A decoder rated at 1 amp continuous, and at least 1.5 amp peak is what I would go for to drive an XO3 or XO4; and I would choose one by Zimo to get the best performance out of this type of motor as these decoders have a very comprehensive range of adjustments. (The ones I use for older design and grumpy motors are Zimo MX64; quite an old decoder now but I have a small stash to get oldies running until I decide on remotoring or selling on, most of these decoders are now on their third go around in models.)

And again with the DCC system, you need one able to access any CV to make full use of such a decoder. The starter systems are typically very restricted in this respect only offering access to the basic CV's, so check the spec. before deciding.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Hornby loco randomly stops

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:32 pm

Hi the only thing that no one has said is that Lima controller is probably a worse piece of junk than the Hornby one with the little red knob. I came by one with some stuff I sold for a friend for charity. I didn't even list the controller, it struggled to power anything. Your ex Triang motor looks to be in good condition but it will have a higher current demand than any modern motor, and be beyond the capacity of many modern analogue controllers. Do insulate all of the wiring particularly the legs on that capacitor. I would suggest cutting its legs much shorter, which will of course mean resoldering them, but if you intend to get the loco chipped it will be discarded anyway. It's probably serving no useful purpose, it's there to keep any RF interference from escaping through to the rails and affecting your TV. In all likelihood those extra long legs make a good aerial without the interference making it out onto the rails. If you have it chipped by someone who specialises in it tell them of it's behaviour, a quick check with a multimeter will show whether the motor is faulty or just hungry. My gut instinct looking at your photo is you won't find a lot wrong with it.
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