Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:30 am

Wanting a modern, current image train to accompany my Royal Train plus preserved livery excursions, I stumbled upon an East Midlands Trains HST with four coaches for a ridiculous price (GBP100.00). The items were new old stock from a closed down model shop and still in original packaging.

However, as the livery has been out of production for at least three years, it seems that first class coaches are non-existent (and knowing Hornby's reluctance to do livery reruns, not likely in the distant future). The 'set' came with a buffet, a third tourist coach and two (yes two) TGS cars. I found some new stock tourist coaches at Rails, so purchased an additional two cars. The 'owners' of this forum have the third class coaches as well but from memory the shop does not ship internationally.

I have a couple of questions. Midland Mainline first class cars are still available. As East Midlands Trains is a 'rebadged' Midland Mainline livery, would it be conceivable to have a mix of cars, say one older livery first class car amongst the set? Also, only one TGS is required but I cannot see myself sticking a spare in the drawer when the cars are difficult to source. Is it too unbelievable to run two TGS in a set to make up the numbers (I know that it is, but am stretching reality a little)?


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby stuartp » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:42 am

Whether they ran with the odd MML-liveried coach in an EMT set will depend on how diligent EMT were in keeping re-liveried sets together, and I can't recall what that was off hand. You'll need to search photos from around the time of the transition. In theory there's no reason why one vehicle could not be swapped out from a set to cover a failure.

As for TFO coaches, the bodyshells appear identical to the TSOs, just with 'First Class' on the doors and the dots above the windows. If you can find some transfers you could make your own from one of your TSOs.
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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:51 am

Many thanks, I was considering the 2007 transition period as regards intermixing liveries. When it comes to Hornby quality control they cannot even sort out their own website. I went Googling for East Midlands Trains first class coaches from Hornby. One search return was Hornby's own online shop with three in stock. Two points to note though. While the heading stated First class coach, the part number and the image were definately a third class car.

I searched further and apparently back in late 2011, Hornby and the box shifters were flogging off East Midland Trains power car sets and coaches for very low prices. Power car sets around GBP100.00, third class coaches down to GBP14.99, buffets and first class around GBP19.99. Hornby only released these in 2010/2011.


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby hairyhandedfool » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:39 am

The "third class" coaches of which you refer are actually 'Standard Class' (TSO -Trailer Standard Open).

I'd think it usual for a HST too have two TGS vehicles because of the limited access at the Guards end of the coach. I think it's even more unlikely for EMT. The reason for this (and perhaps why images of mixed coach rakes are hard to find) is that EMT had more HST coach rakes than they needed, to the extent that not only could they surrender one to East Coast, but also loan them a second set whilst running all of their services and having the necessary maintenance spares. The most common mixed liveries for EMT were the MML power cars on EMT sets and EMT power cars on MML sets.

This somewhat different to the original MML-Revised MML change where MML were struggling for serviceable sets because of the extra 'Project Rio' services to Manchester and the 'poor condition' of the ex-virgin sets. Mixed original/revised/Virgin (unbranded) livery sets were not uncommon back then (they even hired in one of the NRM power cars at one point).
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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:39 pm

I am aware that third class was done away with in the mid-1950's, it is just a quirk of mine that I refer to standard or tourist class cars as 'third' class (as distinct from 'first' class).

I viewed several videos and could not find any mixed rakes so if they did exist then it seems a very rare occurrence. I will need to keep an eye out for two first class coaches. It seems that two firsts, a buffet, four standard opens and a TGS was a standard configuration.


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby martin_l_jones » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:57 pm

No more fotopic, now onto flickr...

Just started to load up my photos and video, see my layout and the real things at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/mljones21
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16645820@N06/6157779077/

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby RFS » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:39 pm

martin_l_jones wrote:Try here, might be a long shot

http://pufferwillies.co.uk/uk2ecommerce ... ass_coach/


I've tried shopping with this place before, but they only tell you it's out of stock if you try to add it to your basket. Sadly this is the case here too.
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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby Black-Marlin » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:36 pm

There's bound to be some kicking around - we had some when I worked in Modelzone and we found them an absolute pig to shift. We still had them when we shut. That stock eventually made its way back to Hornby (I just got an email from Hornby telling me that the 50 remaining MZ exclusive East Coast coaches are now available from the website) so I'd keep an eye on the website. It's entirely possible that they have the coaches in stock, just advertised with an old and incorrect image....

Gavin

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Many thanks, however, Pufferwillies will not ship outside the UK (at least not to Australia) and the Hornby online shop shows three first class coaches as available but the part number and photograph are of standard class coaches. If the cars were available online at Hornby they want GBP30.00 to ship a coach.


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:18 am

My class 43 set arrived today. For the first few minutes the loco ran like a 'pig', stopping and starting and simply not accelerating with power increase. Soon after the speed varied but power pickup was intermittent. Then miraculously it settled down and now runs perfectly. Those ridiculous spinning fans made strange noises at varying throttle settings but these also quietened down after a few minutes running. Once I get inside the loco those fans are losing their drive. Nothing more than a gimmick.

Finally I am able to appreciate the laudits of praise that this class release from Hornby has been showered with. A bit of a rocky start but now very pleased.


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:29 am

That's a pretty much 'as expected' description of getting a 'new old stock' mechanism of this type to run. There will be some dried out (gluey/set) lubricant - on the gear trains especially - gumming up the works, a 'set' in the O ring driving the fans causing lumpiness, a little bit of corrosion on the pick up wipers and their contact tracks, and on the wheel tyres, making for intermittent pick up at first.

You will see the low speed smoothness improve when you unhook the O ring to the fans, a worthless gimmick indeed. Hoepfully the need to contain costs nowadays means the end of this type of gimmickry. Less to do in production, and a better model to boot...

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:41 am

A follow up with the class 43 and trailer car. The fan design on this loco is unlike others in that the drive is a piece of neoprene tubing attached to the input shaft of the fan gearbox. This tubing simply rubs on a rubber ring that is attached to the rear flywheel, so is not the power hungry 'o' ring method used on other classes.

I removed the piece of neoprene but it made no difference to the overall noise of the loco. The fan drive was refitted. Without a load the loco makes a screeching noise on curves. However, with a load the loco is extremely quiet. I cannot see it being run 'light'.

Now the trailing class 43. Power pickup was intermittent. I thought this odd as the car has eight wheel power pickup. I adjusted each pickup to ensure reliability. This may impact on drag, however, should I fit a sound decoder I want reliable power pickup. Lights were fine on test after adjustment (no flickering as before).


Tim

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Re: Hornby 'East Midlands Trains' HST

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:41 am

Patience is a virtue. I tried to find a first class coach for this set without success. Then today, needing to get some glue and with my 'local' hobby store being shutdown for several months, I had to venture to the other side of the city to one of the few remaining train stores in my city. By chance, I spotted a new first class coach sitting in a small heap of Hornby items. One car is a start.


Tim


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