Hornby P2 #2001 "C0ck of the North"

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Hornby P2 #2001 "C0ck of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 10:20 am

While Googling I came upon the P2 Project. It got me thinking why Hornby would produce the original 1934 LNER P2 "**** of the North" in its as released state. Later in its life the bodywork was streamlined to match the remainder of the build run. The streamlined version in my opinion is more consumer friendly and has a longer operating lifetime. I do not know when the class was scrapped but it seems #2001 had a limited life in its unstreamlined form.

The model basically limits the modeller to the mid-1930's period. Maybe the heyday of the LNER but I feel more modellers prefer a later period.

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 10:28 am

A further thought. The society that built Tornado is doing a feasability study on remanufacturing the "C**k of the North" as released. #2001 as released had rotary valve gear not used on other locomotives in the series. The feasability study is not considering using the rotary valves so perhaps Hornby's intention is to cash in on a possible near enough 'new' P2 and capture the modern era and mid-1930's LNER modeller as well. I suppose many wiould not even care what timeframe the loco is from (1934 or modern day).

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 10:37 am

I had to read further. Locomotive introduced in 1934 and streamlined in 1938. In 1943/44 the entire class was rebuilt as Thompson LNER A2 class locomotives. Thus the Hornby model has an effective four year lifetime as modelled.

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby Bigmet » Wed May 08, 2013 11:00 am

The sole attempt at an eight coupled wide firebox express loco in the UK; Hornby have run out of named 'big engines' to add to their range, this is the last candidate, and then there is the possibility that one will get built. Given how successful the A1 has proven to be, a debugged P2 using the lessons learned on that project should do very well, there was never any question that tractively these machines were very potent.

However they should use the Bugatti streamline form. The LNER didn't throw money away, and the streamline form proven on the A4 was specifically used to aid in good crew look out by the superior exhaust clearance it provides. Compare when you get the chance Tornado or DoG and an A4 running at speed. Tornado and DoG typically have a pall of smoke just ahead of the chimney in a vortex above the smokebox front, on an A4 the exhaust is thrown high and clear entrained in the deflected airstream. All use the Kylchap ejector system so the exhaust pressure is very low. This is part of what makes these designs significantly more fuel and water efficient than 'chuffers' of GWR/LMS design which use steam pressure to throw the exhaust clear, a difference which can actually be heard.

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 11:35 am

If they felt the need to produce a one off "DoG" then perhaps they could have done the LNER P1 freight loco. At least there was two of them made, although the power output really exceeded the railway's requirements.

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby DonnyRailMan » Wed May 08, 2013 12:40 pm

I think the streamlined version of Cook Of The North would be a good idea as well as the origianl version .
How many P2s did LNER run prior to them being convertd. Hornby could build a set of P2s as they have
done with say the A3s , A4s,Dutches Class,

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 1:02 pm

According to Wiki, only two unstreamlined, #2001 and #2002. #2002 was a typical Walschaerts valve gear as were 2003 - 2006. #2001 was the oddball with rotary cam operated valves. The Hornby website shows #2001 as released with the rotary cam operated valves. #2003 through to #2006 were introduced as streamliners.

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby D605Eagle » Wed May 08, 2013 10:18 pm

2002s running plate was higher too, so its unlikely they can do anything else without changing the moulds. However a rumor I hear is that Hornby are using soft faced moulding so the number of 2001s they can do is limited

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Wed May 08, 2013 11:11 pm

D605Eagle wrote:................. However a rumor I hear is that Hornby are using soft faced moulding so the number of 2001s they can do is limited


That is indeed strange when they are offering it in both Railroad and upgraded versions. It could be a one off production run and not part of their 'heritage' series. Unlike Hornby to actually throw anything away. Also it could be a marketting ploy to get people to pay full retail when released and not wait for the box shifters to discount the item.

Design clever or not it should be an impressive locomotive. I am thinking something like Margate would have turned out in the early 1990's but with loco drive (none of that fragile detail we all like in the current productions).

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C0ck of the North"

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am

G[size=50][/size]WR_fan wrote:If they felt the need to produce a one off "DoG" then perhaps they could have done the LNER P1 freight loco. At least there was two of them made, although the power output really exceeded the railway's requirements.

The wagon stock of the day wasn't large or strong enough for the train weight needed to operate these fully loaded, and the refuge sidings were too short as well. Still, Heljan will have a coupled chassis of the right wheelbase once they have their announced O2 out, and as the kings of the prototype/small class production using the chassis they have in stock, if they find that steam does well for them in the UK, maybe one day? Oliver Bulleid thought the P1 the most handsome of all the LNER locos, and they do have presence for sure.

Gresley eventually got there with the V2, a universal main line loco capable of everything from heavy freight to express passenger. That's what I had much rather Hornby were tooling to their highest standard, as the Bachmann model has always been the weakest tender loco from their tooling, and they didn't revise the body when it got a new chassis. Comfortably the most numerous wide firebox class on the LNER and regarded by many as SNG's true masterpiece.

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Thu May 09, 2013 10:03 am

I just did a quick search on the 02. Seems Heljan have announced all variations to be manufactured. Could this be to dissuade Hornby from considering it?

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Thu May 09, 2013 10:17 am

Took a little searching but found the 02. It was a Great Northern Railway design (I assumed it was an LNER design). I really like the early 02/2 with the 'spartan GNR cab'. I am suprised such an open cab locomotive made it into the 1960's. I find this design more pleasing than the later more traditional cab design.

Tim

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 09, 2013 11:11 am

Many, many, more like it. Pre-group designs, many with pretty minimal cabs, constituted the majority of steam locos in service until about 1960. Bear in mind too that a significant part of the grouping build, (the numerous LMS 4F a good example, last batch produced in 1940) retained the pretty minimal crew shelter cab. The nice little MR 1F 0-6-0T that Bachmann have announced represents a loco with a half cab which was in service until 1964.

What is missing and difficult to model well is the use of a weather sheet, which was universal in the days of steam. Hooks in the cab roof, and sometimes a light frame which could be rigged on the tender front, were used by the crews to arrange something of a 'lean to' tent to keep the worst of the weather off. I do mine with some cheap black bin liner bags specially retained for the purpose. Light enough to bend as the vehicles move.

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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby markS&D » Sat May 18, 2013 9:41 pm

The P2 2-8-2 was an attractive locomotive, in my opinion the original version looked better without the 'A4 style' front end.

Edward Thompson decided to rebuild these locos into a rather unusual pacific loco, which is interseting in its own right, especially for anyone who operates a 50's/early 60's ECML layout, as the Thompson Pacific's add some variety to the scene.

It is a shame that none of the original P2 locos made it into nationalisation in 1948, as they could have been put to better use.

When the Standard Steam Locos were still in the design phase, a 6' 2" driving wheel 2-8-2 was on the cards!
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Re: Hornby P2 #2001 "C**k of the North"

Postby GWR_fan » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:23 am

Another site has preproduction photographs of the P2. Suprising is the zamak chassis. Quite an imposing model but little use to me given its short timeframe as delivered condition (a couple of years before rebuilding).

Tim


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