Hornby Class 67

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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D306Whistler
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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby D306Whistler » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:49 pm

martin_l_jones wrote:Yes, that statement is unbelievable.
Sorry but I disagree with you here. There is a job shortage in the UK and after reading the article of the botched repairs on some of the new Hornby Class 67's. I am starting to lose confidence in Hornby's offerings. I am in favour of UK production and I would be happy to pay a little more for a British-made model locomotive that is made properly and that has been examined thoroughly by QC rather than something that is "Botched in China" which the consumer will end up returning it for further repair or exchange :).

Now before anyone jumps to conclusions here. I am not against the Chinese or items Made in China in anyway as most of you will know that Bachmann models are also Made in China and I have "never" (touch wood) had a problem with their models. Personally wherever the model is made, it should be made properly - no exceptions! :roll:.

Bushey Troughs wrote:
martin_l_jones wrote:Yes, that statement is unbelievable.

I'm a little unclear as to what statement, was unbelievable.

People pay big money for Wrenn models still. Great runners built to last and made in Britain.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys the same is true of consumer goods.
I agree with you on the last statement, but I do not consider £96 to £130 for a Hornby Class 67 to be "peanuts" ;). Roco make their model trains in Germany (As far as I recall) and the wages in Mainland Europe are not too much different to the UK. So going on the basis of the Roco SNCF CC72000 Diesel Locomotives which sell for about £160 (200 Euros thereabouts). The cost of a British made Hornby Class 60 would be around £175 -/+ and the Class 67 would be about £160 -/+ if Hornby brought production back to the UK from China. So not much difference really and there would be no shipping costs involved (apart from exports) ;). I would be happy to pay around £30/£50 more for a model locomotive made in Britain that I know would be made to a better standard of quality, rather than buying a model that is cheaper to be made in China which can have pitfalls.

Its bit of a lucky dip with Chinese-made products because from one factory they can really make some fantastic items. Just look at the Hornby Class 60, Class 56, HST and the Bachmann models which are cracking works of art in miniature. But on the downside, it seems like some factories/workers just could not care of less if the product is satisfactory or not. I am looking to purchase a Hornby Class 67 as I do like the W&S model. But I will thoroughly examine it before I part with any cash :).

My question is however. Taking into account the article I have read elsewhere with the 4VEP and now the Class 67 issue is. Can Hornby really afford to keep dealing with incidents such as these? Hornby to me is a name that I grew up with during in my Childhood days and I would hate to see Hornby go out of business because of an overseas factory is not pulling its weight :roll:.

Food for thought...................
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thebritfarmer
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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby thebritfarmer » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:38 pm

Read Martins post again, I think the wrong end of the stick has been grabbed here because of the way it was quoted.

I think this is what was unbelievable :-

"wasn't it Margate who said along the lines of 'can't see what the problem is' to RE?"

Hornby saying there wasn't a problem, when clearly the pics showed that there was.
All Aboooooard !!

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby dubdee1000 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:12 pm

As i made the quote, allow me to clarify the 'can't see what the problem is'

When RE & others brought the ill fitting front ends, poor paint job, gouged out ends/sides, glued repairs, missing decals, to the attention of Hornby, the reply was:

"the damage occurred in transit and when they passed QC everything was fine."

A bashed box maybe a transit issue, but how on earth do items get glued back together *in transit*. To my belief, this is what has particularly irritated people about the 67. Its Hornbys attitude of "yeah well" that cuts. Do they think we're stupid or do they just not care? Neither should we be shy in holding to account some of the magazines who gave glowing reviews to items that were clearly flawed. This is OUR MONEY that we're being encouraged to part with and i don't want to buy a dud just because a magazine editor doesn't wish to offend its sponsors.

Personally, I'm at a point where i couldn't give a stuff about Hornby anymore. If they go bust so be it. Perhaps a bit of a shame, but if there is any value in the brand, someone will wait for it to hit bottom and buy it. But whilst Hornby carries on paying scant regard to QC/customer expectation we can forget any hopes of the other manufacturers bailing us out for i can't see Heljan/Dapol/Bachmann touching the 67 or VEP now because Hornby have had a go and thus future sails must be uncertain. (Granted, i am mindful of the Heljan/Dapol Western issue!)

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant. Long days in work etc, but i feel really strongly about this. Hornby blew its budget on Olympic tat, sticking five rings onto anything and everything with Frank Martin taking the people most associated with railway modelling (us) for mugs.

see here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/08/hornby-retail
and here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/dec/21/1
and here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/8772408/Hornby-on-the-right-track-with-a-change-of-direction.html
etc

Frank Martin salary 2012 (inc options) - £326,741

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby D306Whistler » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:39 pm

Well in this case if that is how Hornby is dealing with this matter. Then I don't think Hornby is going to be around in the next five years :roll:. I was at the Peterborough Exhibition at the weekend and I overheard some people having a chat with Kohler about the Class 67 issues. Maybe I have missed the point here but it seems like Hornby is taking the British Leyland attitude to things like this and we all know what happened to them, don't we? :?.

It makes me wonder if Hornby go bust, will Bachmann/Dapol and Heljan buy up all the ex-Hornby tooling and continue these models under their own brands? Well one thing is for sure, the model railway scene will feel alot different without Hornby if that does happen. No company is immune to going bust, just look at Enron for example. Hornby need to buck up their ideas before its too late.
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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby brighton rock » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:59 am

I have the Class 67 on my wish list and am saving my pinnies to buy at the first opportunity.
My hope for this topic was to hear about its running and ability to perfom on the track.
quality issues for the body and marks can be sorted in production and I am sure hornby will take note of feedback and information on various forums. They would be silly to ignore such sources of feedback about these after all.

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby D605Eagle » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Are these not made in the new India factory, not China?

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby nikabd » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:22 am

Hi,

I received Class 67 DB Schenker few weeks ago from Hattons. I ordered DCC ready version but received DCC fitted one instaed (no complain)
There seems to be no problem with the body shell and paintwork i.e. no glue marks or cracks.
The loco works fine with the exception the front lights at one end which is 'slightly' faulty. Not the end of the world as I used this as the tail end with working tail lights.
Here are some of the photos.
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Photo 04
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Jonny
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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby Jonny » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:29 pm

Out of interest how often do Hornby diesels come with drivers already in place.

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby thebritfarmer » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:53 am

I'd say never
All Aboooooard !!

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:34 am

Part of the QC problems that Hornby face is down to any checking done in the UK. If they do any it will be to the control standards that operated in Margate production days. The Chinese producers are no different to UK outsource suppliers, they will soon work out what corners they can cut without being pulled up. Any company these days supplying a premium product needs to learn a lesson from Ford who upped their game by adopting one all encompassing principal - "Good enough is not good enough any longer"
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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby martin_l_jones » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:54 pm

Bushey Troughs wrote:
martin_l_jones wrote:Yes, that statement is unbelievable.

I'm a little unclear as to what statement, was unbelievable.

People pay big money for Wrenn models still. Great runners built to last and made in Britain.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys the same is true of consumer goods.


I work in the automotive industry and understand manufacturing costs really well...

£100 is NOT peanuts, I would estimate the manufacturing cost of a mass produced diesel locomotive to probably be about £30 to £40...
No more fotopic, now onto flickr...

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby martin_l_jones » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:58 pm

Damn no edit function....

I meant to qualify that the statement 'unbelievable' was aimed at Hornby not seeing an issue with the faults portrayed in the RE report...
No more fotopic, now onto flickr...

Just started to load up my photos and video, see my layout and the real things at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/mljones21
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16645820@N06/6157779077/

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby D306Whistler » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:20 pm

martin_l_jones wrote:
Bushey Troughs wrote:
martin_l_jones wrote:Yes, that statement is unbelievable.

I'm a little unclear as to what statement, was unbelievable.

People pay big money for Wrenn models still. Great runners built to last and made in Britain.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys the same is true of consumer goods.


I work in the automotive industry and understand manufacturing costs really well...

£100 is NOT peanuts, I would estimate the manufacturing cost of a mass produced diesel locomotive to probably be about £30 to £40...
Spot on mate ;). It seems that Hornby couldn't care or less if their models meet customer expectations or not nowadays. I shall still get my quota of Hornby Class 67's but as I have lost faith in Hornby, I will inspect these models thoroughly before buying of which I aim to buy them from Warley MRE this year.

martin_l_jones wrote:Damn no edit function....

I meant to qualify that the statement 'unbelievable' was aimed at Hornby not seeing an issue with the faults portrayed in the RE report...
Sorry mate, I think I misunderstood your post when I replied originally but when things like this happen such as the botched repairs to damaged models because a factory that has been contracted to make these models to a high standard fails to pull its weight. Company reputation is kind of put into jeopardy here. Personally though, if I was in charge of Hornby. Bearing in mind the rising costs of production in China, I would strongly consider bringing production back to the UK because in a couple of years or so, its going to work out to be cheaper for production. Well a perfect example here that in 2006, the Hornby Class 60 retailed at RRP of £89.99 which has increased to £149.99. That is a £60 increase over 6 years, and I would have thought that Hornby could have added working cab lights to this very attractive and successful model during this process. I do however crave for these Hornby Class 60's as I now have over 10 of them in my fleet that I have obtained over the years which are either self bought or received as a gift from the family (I think they know my weakness here ;) :lol: ).

I do think though that Hornby needs to turn up the heat on Quality Control in the future so that mishaps like this do not happen in the future 8).
Ash - A Thoroughbred Railway Fan ;).

60008 and D306 are the best Diesels Ever!
http://www.youtube.com/EWS60008

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby Meister » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:52 pm

As Bushey Troughs says, Wrenn are great models. Very basic compared to modern offerings but a quality British product that was built to last. Hornby and Bachmann look good but they aren't made to be used and abused. Wrenn gets my vote every time.

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Re: Hornby Class 67

Postby martin_l_jones » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:44 pm

What is so disappointing is the fact that they have had plenty of opportunity to get things right with this release, especially being a new model.

It will make people edgy in an already difficult market, even put people off buying a Hornby Class 67 at all when the model is quite nice actually.
No more fotopic, now onto flickr...

Just started to load up my photos and video, see my layout and the real things at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/mljones21
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16645820@N06/6157779077/


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