Hornby Thompson O1

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:51 pm

The real obstacle in OO is the standard set track point; based on an average radius of R2. The good old Pareto principle will suggest that 80%ish of the market is probably tied to this point. That's the killer that means R2 is going to remain the base standard for general market RTR. Can't afford to ignore 80% of the market. Wonder what the OO minimum radius picture is among NRM site users?

The only RTR production models in OO that come with a larger radius restriction, are typically high price largely metal construction, recently from makers like Golden Age and the FiaTrains LMS 10000/10001 models, and also small batch productions from outfits like OOWorks. These typically require something around the 36" minimum radius mark, which has been established for decades as the usual OO finescale minimum radius for all but short wheelbase shunting types: simply because this means that the models require no compromises other than the enabling undersize track gauge related features on the working chassis.

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:14 am

'Handsome is as handsome does' is my core rule for model railway product; and this one is a cracker. The only regret I have with it is that Hornby really didn't choose the best prototype subject; I can only find a use for one as it was relatively rare at the Southern end of the ECML in the final decade of steam, where heavy freight movement was dominated by the WD and 9F types. The more numerous O2 (now announced by Heljan) would have been preferable if Hornby felt it had to be a 2-8-0: and the Peppercorn K1 or Ivatt/Gresley J6 much better choices yet, as medium sized LNER freight loco classes. (Smallest LNER tender freight class is the J39, a 5F, then the K3 at 6MT, ROD at 7F, O1 and O2 both 8F. Something a little more modest in the 0-6-0 department, like the C class, Dean Goods, Johnson 3F now available for SR, GW, LMS areas would be nice...)

But back to the O1. I think it has a foretaste of design clever on it. The front tender handrails are very finely moulded in plastic as part of the tender sides, so well done it took me a while to realise that it wasn't the usual added wire and knobs. Generally appearance and detailing are very fine, the one obvious visibly less refined piece the front of the pony truck. Slackening off the front keeper plate screw allows this to be unclipped, and I have cut back the front face so that just the frame ends show, big improvement for ten minutes cutting and filing and a little black paint ahead of weathering. A tie bar can be added between the life guards from brass wire through two small holes, (best drilled before cutting back the metal) and that ices the cake.

The moulded 'coal' on the shovelling plate also knocks out, adding real coal here and in the bunker space looks so much better as always. An unusual aspect of the construction is that the cab front glazing goes in from the front, outside the cab. A little matt black paint thin enough to run into the gap between opening and glazing improves appearance further. I only do this job on sunny days looking through a magnifier, to be really accurate in placing the brush.

Running is out of the top drawer, smooth, quiet, everything it should be. Ample motor power and a good gear reduction means it can take more weight, I needed a little more mass in mine for the long gradients on my layout; traction on the level was more than adequate for a sixty wagon freight and I don't imagine many folks would complain at that. Covered in the typical rust, muck and filth at the head of a slow freight drag it looks terrific, plodding along.

hornbyandbf3fan
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby hornbyandbf3fan » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:10 pm

[quote="Bigmet"] Something a little more modest in the 0-6-0 department, like the C class, Dean Goods, Johnson 3F now available for SR, GW, LMS areas would be nice...)
quote]

What about the upcoming J11? I wouldn't be suprised if a J15 comes along soon!
15 and a railway fan, something very rare now
My youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/user/hornbyandbf3fan?feature=mhee

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D605Eagle
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby D605Eagle » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:44 pm

I just bought one very cheap from "the modeller", but I have no intenmtion of using it, just bought it to sell on later. I don't think they as good looking as the O4s, and with the expense of the rebuilding of them, were they significantly better? I dont think so. I think Hornby would have been much better off building an O2.

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:26 am

The O1 was one of the better features of the Thompson Loco programme. The LNER O4 was already a far from standard loco class by the time Thompson came to office, with a group of variants from O4/1 to O4/7. The LNER had renewed boilers and smokeboxes in particular piecemeal, and latterly also cabs as these wore out, and the position in the 1940s was that the cylinder castings were also coming up for renewal on some machines.

As O4s came in for overhaul, they were checked for the renewals they required, and only those needing the 'full works' got the complete upgrade to O1, where the cylinders were still OK the rebuild was to O4/8; and of course many O4s would go on to the end still in largely original condition, or in whatever earlier sub-class status they had reached before Thompson's plan. Thompson used his standard B1 components, 100A boiler, cylinders, valve gear and cabs for all his work naturally enough.

The point being that the O1s used the tenders complete, wheels and frames of an O4 that required all the other major components replaced anyway. What the LNER got was an 8F instead of the 7F of the O4, sharing standard components from the B1 which was the largest loco class they ever had, essentially for the same spend as renewal to an O4 sub-class would have required. That's a sensible investment, a higher power class loco which the very good frame design was fully capable of supporting. The better cylinder porting and valve events also delivered a considerably speedier loco than an O4, which led to the O1s running the famed 'windcutter' freights on the old GC route.

Further to this, when tested by BR - contrary to expectation - the cheaper round top boiler locomotives from Doncaster consistently as a group did the work on lower coal and water consumptions than the more expensive and much vaunted Belpaire boilered designs. That test included the O1 which outperformed both the 8F and 28xx with their tapered Belpaire boilers and all. Just not necessary for a moderate power output design such as a class 5MT/8F, a simple round top parallel boiler with good size smokebox enabling a large superheater to be readily fitted the better option.

markeg
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby markeg » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:26 am

I picked up one of these from the modeller sale a few months ago. I would not have bought one otherwise, but must say they look good in the pictures and even better in the flesh and run very well. I have the weathered BR version. I would have preferred the 02 with GNR cab, but that will have to wait for heljan to release that some time down the track.

I have a couple of DCC fitted sound locos and was thinking that I will put sound in this model. Has anyone fitted sound to it, and what did you fit? I have checked youtube and several websites. Is it possible to use an 04 sound decoder? Which is the way I am thinking at the moment, only because these were rebuilds of the 04 (GCR 8K).

Mark

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:34 pm

What contributes most of the characteristic exhaust noise is the smokebox volume, blastpipe and chimney arrangement, and the valve events. It should sound more like a B1 than anything else, and since that is the sole Thompson design survivor that is what I would suggest. (Guessing someone will have a sound project for the B1 since a model has been available long term.)

What you won't get is the horrible clonking of worn big ends, so typical of slow freight heavies. Doesn't matter what design, the frequent requirement for high torque at low speed and inadequate maintenance resources meant that these machines spent most of their time mechanically rough. What time there was for the shed staff to remetal and fit bearings was focussed on loco classes that had to be driven at higher speeds to keep schedule. The freighters on turns that were 20mph-ish max much of the time, their crews would just have to put up with the racket; clink-clonk, clink-clonk...

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:06 am

Finally got around to modifying the loco to tender drawbar on mine. I don't like seeing these hanging off the underside, much prefer them where they should be between the dragboxes. (I view my layout when seated with eye level not much above the rail so this sort of thing is on view.)

It turned out to be very easy to use the screw attachments for the original drawbar, the tender screw now inside, and a new drawbar cut out from thin metal sheet being the significant differences. The connecting plug and socket still runs on the same route as before, but all concealed inside the tender. There was slack wire available on the loco plug to enable this.

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6C
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby 6C » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:18 pm

There is anecdotal evidence of the 04 happily running (and braking) on 80lb/sq in of steam pressure - bet the 01 couldn't have done that even with the excellent Thompson round-top boiler - which I think was also fitted to the 04/8.

Suppose the question is - would the LNER have been better served just producing 04/8s rather than the 01 ?

All speculation - as I now have both in model form - as 2 of my favourite locos :D
Pete

Fetch me a bottle of your finest Chateau Bichon Frise '65 !!

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:28 am

If it had been affordable, the LNER would have been better off (in spares holdings and supply especially) having just two classes, O4 in original condition, and a single style of rebuild when original parts were beyond repair, instead of the 'patchwork' that they actually had. But this drift into non-standardness affected many large classes that served over extended periods, and that included supposed uniform types like the Black 5 and 8F.

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:46 pm

An example of the currently available R3730 came my way yesterday, a friend's purchase that I am engaged to test run, decoder fit and 'adjust' should that be required. Still as good as when first released, almost forgotten how 'complete' it is as a RTR loco. Ran very sweetly and quietly from dead slow out of the box, pulls a 60 wagon freight on level track, all the practical detail reproduced and well attached, measures and looks just right. Real coal in the bunker and whatever freight loco filth the owner wishes to add, and you have a model to beat what most of us could achieve by assembling kits or scratchbuilding, when that was the only way to get most loco subjects in model form.

Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Thompson O1

Postby Bigmet » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am

The newly received O1 proved to have a small trick up its sleeve, tender top remained stubbornly attached at the front after the securing screws were removed to gain access for decoder installation, and rearrangement of drawbar and wiring as done on my own. A little work with a scalpel blade cut through under the brake stanchion, the cement for which was holding the tender top on. The cut site was all concealed once the tender top went back on after the work was done, and it is running sweetly on DCC as expected.

hornbyandbf3fan wrote:
Bigmet wrote: Something a little more modest in the 0-6-0 department, like the C class, Dean Goods, Johnson 3F now available for SR, GW, LMS areas would be nice...

What about the upcoming J11? I wouldn't be surprised if a J15 comes along soon!

Oh yes, a J11 came my way. Another relative rarity at the Southern end of the ECML so only one, but having found that I could fit the J11 mechanism in a J39 body from an old model with a totally worn out split chassis mechanism, a second was purchased when cheaply available s/h, as Bachmann were then (and still are) dragging their feet over renewing this model. It's not perfect as some of the gear train is on view, but the key thing is that I have a sweet running J39 on the layout.

And then Hornby obliged with the J15, a real beauty, which did appear quite regularly in the area, and allowed my very old whitemetal kit J15 to be withdrawn. Hornby then came up with the J36, just as fine as the J15, and Oxford have the J26/J27 announced.

Which only leaves me looking for the GNR's last 0-6-0 design, the Ivatt/Gresley J6 'Knick-knack', so that my very ancient hand built item can be retired. There were a dozen of these between Hornsey and Hitchin right to the end of steam, for the pick up goods and any other work required. By 1960 these were the oldest loco design regularly seen on the Southern end of the ECML, and they looked it. The cab was so shallow in the old GNR style, that you got a good view of what the crew were doing when one of these was standing at a platform, excellent for the boy I then was.


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