Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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GunnerBill
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Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:32 am

I have a number of Lima Deltics now (actually 3!). All run but could do with some TLC.

At the same time I'm going to attempt a twin engine conversion of one of them - by slotting the power bogie of one into another.

The only problem I can forsee is getting the pickups sorted, but I doubt this would be severe.

Has this been done before (I bet it has) if so has anyone got any tips in this direction?

Bigmet
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby Bigmet » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:18 am

Many of us did these things to get decent haulage without traction tyres on Hornby, Airfix, Lima and Mainline products. Five tips.

If you are using DC control you need a pair of power bogies that are well matched, which means that with both on the track they start together in both directions and run at similar rates through the speed range. The performance will depend in part on how large a current supply your controller can supply, but is unlikely to be very refined. If DCC is to be used the mechanical matching is less important, but you will need a decoder for each motor to enable the decoders to do the matching.

Pick ups are easily arranged on Lima power bogies by using 0.5mm nickel silver wire wound around a pair of small self tapping screws set in the base plate of the bogie each side. Link the pick ups end to end so that all pick up wheels feed both motors or decoders.

Swap the traction tyred wheels for the pick up bogie wheels, with both bogies driven, traction tyres are unnecessary.

Easiest way to fit two Lima power bogies: split two chassis and bond togther the two powered ends.

Think hard about doing this. You will end up with a (probably noisy) decent traction unit, which is still not a scale model thanks to the weird dimensional errors Lima tooled into this item. If you are in it for the fun of doing the job, that's great. But for my money, the availability of a reasonably priced scale model from Bachmann makes this a non-starter. I would flog the Limas, and work on the Bachmann, which can use some detail improvement on the bodyshell, and be slightly lowered on its' running gear for improved appearance. This is a matter of putting in the investment of effort on a model which is a better starting point to a good scale model. The smooth, quiet, powerful operation of the heavy centre motor drive alone swings it for me. (All my diesel bimotors have been retired, I am in centre motor heaven.)

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:02 pm

Thanks for the info Bigmet. It looks like I'll be able to make some good progress on this project.

I'm definitely in it for the fun and it'll be a good job to re-hone my skill on before attempting anything on a new model!

I'm interested though in one other comment you made - are the Bachmann diesels also with centre motor & dual powered bogies, like the Vi Trains?

Cheers

Richard

Bigmet
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby Bigmet » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:55 pm

All Bachmann's bogie diesel locos have had this style of drive from their entry to the UK OO market in the early 1990's.

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:02 pm

Bigmet wrote:All Bachmann's bogie diesel locos have had this style of drive from their entry to the UK OO market in the early 1990's.


lol, thanks, I've got a lot of catching up to do!

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K9-70
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby K9-70 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:22 pm

Bigmet wrote:All Bachmann's bogie diesel locos have had this style of drive from their entry to the UK OO market in the early 1990's.


No they haven't.
The original Bachmann Class 45 was fitted with an improved version of the Mainline motor that still had traction tyres fitted. I had two of them.

K9-70
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:03 pm

K9-70 wrote:
Bigmet wrote:All Bachmann's bogie diesel locos have had this style of drive from their entry to the UK OO market in the early 1990's.


No they haven't.
The original Bachmann Class 45 was fitted with an improved version of the Mainline motor that still had traction tyres fitted. I had two of them.

K9-70


Which translated into polite speak could read:

Some might I have, I've got 2 original 45's with an improved version of the Mainline motor that still had traction tyres fitted. I guess there's always an exception?

Maybe they were a pre-production version that escaped to N.I.? :mrgreen:

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K9-70
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby K9-70 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:53 pm

Aye, maybe they did escape to N.I. and I was lucky enough to own them.

K9-70
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:36 pm

Stage one is complete.

I've wired the two motors together. Perhaps a bit simpler than above as I've simply turned motor#2 round so it's feed is on the opposite track to motor#1 and wired across each motor to take the appropriate feed.

Although at slow speed one motor is a little faster at a good running speed they are well matched. A bit of Peco's Electrolube and they're also pretty quiet.

After chopping the tow chassis I bonded them together (initially) with a bit of airfix model glue then set about pouring in some fiberglass resin. I then "laminated" in slabs of roofing lead with the resin to complete the bonding and also add 12oz of ballast (3oz more than standard).

In a sperate thread I'm going to ask about some new livery ideas.

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:14 am

Some time has passed since completion...

So I finished it and (obviously) tested the operation on a live section of track. Here's the motors wired up and ready to go in the chassis:

Image

Which then ended up in this:

Image

But I didn't have a layout and still don't all this time later. So it went on display until I recently found somehwere to run it for a while and...

It runs BACKWARDS to all the other loco's :lol:

Because I never tested it in conjunction with another loco. :oops:

Question is do I have to re-wire it or would adding DCC fudge it?

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naugytrax
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby naugytrax » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:07 am

I did a conversion like this to a Lima Warship and it didn't run backwards! Is it possible that you simply reassembled the bogies the wrong way round?

If you intend to convert it to DCC then surely that means you would rewire it in any case? Not exactly a fudge, I'd say.

(The rule for DC operation is that if the right-hand rail is positive from the "driver"'s point of view, the loco should go forwards.)
Humphrey

Bigmet
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby Bigmet » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:17 am

Exactly, no fudging required at all. Both motors just need the supplies to the brushes swapping over, four soldered joints to undo and remake, job done.

If it is to be DCC'd then it needs to come apart anyway I suggest, as the decoders for each bogie will best be set up with the two bogies running independently to enable them to be closely matched for on track performance.

Like the neatly executed Virgin livery. Fictitious livery on what is a fictitious model, (given its' scale errors) that seems somehow appropriate.

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:50 pm

naugytrax wrote:I did a conversion like this to a Lima Warship and it didn't run backwards! Is it possible that you simply reassembled the bogies the wrong way round?

If you intend to convert it to DCC then surely that means you would rewire it in any case? Not exactly a fudge, I'd say.

(The rule for DC operation is that if the right-hand rail is positive from the "driver"'s point of view, the loco should go forwards.)


No it doesn't matter which way round on the track you put it, it always goes in the opposite direction to the other Loco's. Contrary bugger that Deltic, perhaps it doesn't like it's new outift!! :D

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GunnerBill
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Re: Lima Deltic twin engine conversion?

Postby GunnerBill » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:01 pm

Bigmet wrote:Exactly, no fudging required at all. Both motors just need the supplies to the brushes swapping over, four soldered joints to undo and remake, job done.

If it is to be DCC'd then it needs to come apart anyway I suggest, as the decoders for each bogie will best be set up with the two bogies running independently to enable them to be closely matched for on track performance.

Like the neatly executed Virgin livery. Fictitious livery on what is a fictitious model, (given its' scale errors) that seems somehow appropriate.


Thanks - I wouldn't have dared trying it with something nicer :)


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