Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).

If Hornby made an LMS Garrett would you buy it?

Poll ended at Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:32 am

Yes
21
47%
Maybe
7
16%
No
17
38%
Don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 45

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son of triangman
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Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby son of triangman » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:32 am

If Hornby made an LMS Garrett would you buy it?

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live-frog
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby live-frog » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:05 am

Smae answer as the Jiffy , SoT , love one but doesn't fit with what I'm doing. I could see it being popular though.

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son of triangman
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby son of triangman » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:45 am

No problem good sir, it's interesting to see what all us guys would buy. Keep them votes coming folks.

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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby UrbanHermit » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:07 pm

I've voted "no," because it doesn't fit in with what I'm doing. I find it intriguing, though, to see the amount of interest that's been expressed from time to time in this forum in the LMS Garretts, considering how profoundly unpopular they seem to have been in real life with those who had to operate and maintain them. Impressive looking beasts they were, to be sure. It's just such a pity that the powers-that-were in the LMS didn't just leave Beyer Peacock to get on with something they knew far more about than the LMS people did, thereby compromising the design and dooming it to mediocrity.
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TerryB
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby TerryB » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:19 pm

A resounding YES from me .... 8)

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Bushey Troughs
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby Bushey Troughs » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:43 pm

A YES indeed from me. I can remember them pulling the Totton - Brent coal trains. Seeing the price a Rosebud Garratt kit fetches, it would be a winner.
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bike2steam
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby bike2steam » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:41 pm

Yes I'd buy one, but who's got a layout big enough to run trains with 60+ coal wagons ???

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Bushey Troughs
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby Bushey Troughs » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:21 pm

bike2steam wrote:Yes I'd buy one, but who's got a layout big enough to run trains with 60+ coal wagons ???

I counted one of them pulling 42, all full.... :lol:
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bike2steam
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby bike2steam » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Bushey Troughs wrote: I can remember them pulling the Totton - Brent coal trains.


As an afterthought, that ages you, I was only 7 years old (and before I got to the Midland main line) when the last one went to the scrapyard.

Ok 60 - empty, which aint too many as GWR 28xx's were capable of 100.
:D

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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby Bushey Troughs » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:11 pm

I lived not far from the WCML from 5 till I was 19. They were still puuling coal trains in the early 1950s..... :)
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Zunnan
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby Zunnan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:42 pm

These are more my cup of coffee. You could pencil me in for a couple of Garretts if they were ever made. I'd rather wait for RTR than try to source an old kit that itself can cost a small fortune.

Off topic a moment re haulage; the Super Ds were capable of moving 50+ loads up the curved 1:100 incline out of Griff Colliery at line speed, the industrials at the site weren't cleared for working this section of line (only the ex-LNWR metals between the collieries) so the train engine had to do it with no assistance. The movement required for all Northbound trains being that the locomotive had to propel its train out 'wrong line' with a maximum line speed of just 10mph! I have a funny feeling that the Garretts could easily outperform these, even though the Duck 8s were a bit special. :wink:

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PeterH
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby PeterH » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:36 pm

A no for me. Wouldn't fit on my layout!
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son of triangman
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby son of triangman » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am

The problem with the garretts were the midland style 4F axle boxes, Beyer Peacock wanted to fit their axleboxes but the die hard outdated Midland practices and stiff opposition within the LMS by ex midland staff to anything not Midland lead to the locos being fitted with Midland 4F style axle boxes and the die was cast. The garratts were good locos, but due to the axlebox compromise they were dogged by hot boxes throughout their career, there were also other problems with the locos as well.

E S Cox Assistant CME of British Railways who started his career with the L&Y sums up the garratts and their problems nicely in his book Locomotive Panorama Volume One. Interestingly a non compound and indeed compound pacific style garretts were drawn up by the LMS for Scottish line work as was a 4-4-2 version and these designs were looked at in 1948 and 1949 but 2-8-0's were considered to be up to the job and the idea was quickly dropped. The 4-6-2 2-6-4 version being a maximum power unit for fast heavy express working, unfortunately only one train "The Royal Highlander" called for such super power, a modified version of the 4-6-2 2-6-4 design with the latest axlebox techonology available was considered as a replacement for the original garratts which were giving a lot of trouble with hot boxes mainly. The 4-4-2 2-4-4 version would have been a mixed traffic loco. It's all outlined in this book and well worth any LMS fan reading.

Anyway back to the vote.

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Zunnan
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby Zunnan » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:46 pm

son of triangman wrote:The problem with the garretts were the midland style 4F axle boxes...


Exactly the same problem which plagued the 'Austin 7s'. On light to medium locomotives they were acceptable, but were never good enough for larger designs. I often think Crewe should have had the main influence on the early LMS, the initial perpetuation of the Midlands small engine policy was a severe Achilles heel for the company. The Garretts and 7F (yes please Hornby/Bachmann! :wink: ) could and should have been so much better than they were but for the Derby influence.

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thomas the plank engine
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Re: Would you buy an LMS Garrett?

Postby thomas the plank engine » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:22 pm

Sure would have one. Might not be used much but as a preserved line it would have to be a must have loco. Heck I already have a Union Pacific Big Boy :D

Ian


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