Origional Hornby Class 58.

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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glegalee
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Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby glegalee » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:25 pm

I have one of the above but unfortunately I have never really used this engine because of it's extremely poor performance. Now that I am older and have more time on my hands (no longer at school or college and have no homework to do) I have been spending more time "Playing Trains", I feel that I should do something to remedy my lack of use of this model. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of any motor replacement projects that I could do on mine? Other than buying a second motor bogie and installing it in the non powered end to give it 2 motors, which I know is an option but if I already have one bad motor and add another I can't help feeling that I would only make it worse.

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Any suggestions greatly recieved.

Cheers guys.
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son of triangman
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby son of triangman » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:47 am

The easiest route would be to fit a second motor bogie as you mention. The Hornby class 58 is renown for it's lack of guts and has a tiny disposable limited life can motor. There are other solutions out there, a trawl of the web and Railway Modeller may well reveal a solution. However beware of amything that involves surgery to your loco as it will devalue the model. Your class 58 a third issue model cat number R.250 issued 1984-1991. It's a sought after and popular issue of the loco because of it's running number and is starting to command a good price to the collector.

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son of triangman
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby son of triangman » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:50 am

First issue/original issue of Hornby class 58 was R332 in 1982 running number 58007, the loco had the running number on all cabsides, the second issue model had the same running number but with Railfreight on two cabsides.

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K9-70
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby K9-70 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:08 am

son of triangman wrote:First issue/original issue of Hornby class 58 was R332 in 1982 running number 58007, the loco had the running number on all cabsides, the second issue model had the same running number but with Railfreight on two cabsides.


I wonder how Hornby got that wrong? or did Railfreight decide to add the Railfreight logo to one side of either cab at a later date ?
Do you know how many models Hornby released before catching it on that theirs was incorrectly numbered on both cabs?

K9-70

BTW; I have the incorrect first issue model.
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

Bigmet
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby Bigmet » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:27 pm

If you can get a reasonable price for it, flog it and buy the Heljan which has a decent drive, and a more recently tooled bodyshell.

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glegalee
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby glegalee » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:52 pm

Bigmet wrote:If you can get a reasonable price for it, flog it and buy the Heljan which has a decent drive, and a more recently tooled bodyshell.


I don't want to flog it because I like it, I would love to see it pulling a nice load on my layout when it is in a state where by I can run engines. I know that the little motor inside is completely useless and would never dream of moding the body shell to accomodate a better motor so maybe the second bogie would be my best bet. I was unaware that the model I have is turning into a collectors item so that's another good reason not to mod the shell or flog it. I believe that the engine was origionally part of a pack, it came with a controller, track and some trucks as per usual. When I was given it the box was serverely damaged and the track was nackered to say the least so I no longer have the afore mentioned.

If I do find a solution to my problem I'll be sure to let everybody know.

Please keep the suggestions coming though as they are all usefull.

Cheers.
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Bigmet
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby Bigmet » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:27 am

Problem is, that to maximise the collector value you must not mod the Hornby 58 at all, and preferably not run it either.

When it comes to modifying a twin bogie diesel to improve traction, two motor bogies is disproportionately expensive, and quite often doesn't deliver the performance that a current centre motor chassis delivers. These typically have more than adequate traction, and are smoother and quieter in operation because the motor is isolated from the running gear.

Let me suggest pricing the parts required to modify the Hornby 58, against an all-new Heljan, searching around for the best price of which this is a fair example http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=22787

So there's another option: keep the Hornby exactly as it is, solely as a display item; acquire and run the Heljan as the very competent workhorse on the layout.

As you may have realised, I am pretty unsentimental, for example when Bach announced their 08, I quickly sold my old but well cared for Hornby-Dublo item, and it more than paid for the three 08s I have now, which are much superior models in all respects.

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K9-70
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby K9-70 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:35 am

If you don't wish to fit a second motor to your 58, you could always add extra weight in the form of strips of lead to the inside the body to aid grip.

I've done this to several Hornby 47's and it improved the traction by 100%.

K9-70
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

Dad-1
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:04 pm

We have one of these on the club layout - It was missing it's centre tanks which I rebuilt from plasticard and dowling. That was a bit of a waste of time as it can't pull anything - well itself, just. Add a load of wagons and all we have is wheel slip and it has traction tyres !! I certainly wouldn't bother to use one for anything other that scenery. It's put me off the 58 all together, but I'll bet the Heljan one will work hard, an observation based on their 33's & 47's.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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glegalee
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby glegalee » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:34 pm

Thanks for all your replies, I am not to worried about keeping it in pristing condition as it's not been looked after properly for many years, nor am I too worried about keeping it origional to keep the value up. I have been looking at a replacement motor chassis and they don't appear to be too expensive. I have also been having a play on autocad 2004 and designing a mod to the motor chassis where by I can fit a different type of motor completely. The new motor will give direct drive to the gears and remove the requirement for the worm gear set up, and as I am the type of chap that likes making things I and seriously considering the motor replacement idea of mine. I won't be able to start making the chassis mod until the new year but when I do I will be sure to post some pics and let you know how it goes.

Cheers guys.
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glegalee
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby glegalee » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:43 pm

Here is the first design of my motor mod for the my Hornby Class 58.

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Thanks for looking.
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glegalee
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby glegalee » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:00 pm

Ok so today I set about moding my dummy bogie to fit the new motor, I did the dummy because I didn't want to wreck the origional motor bogie and completely mess it up. All in all, I am very pleased with the outcome so far, I have tested the motor in the chassis but have yet to put threads in the casting to fit the gear screws into, so at pressent the design is untested, I will tap the threads tomorrow and fit the gears, I will then make a video of the old vs new motor performance.

Here are a couple of pics for your perusal.

Old Motor
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New Motor
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Any comments or thoughts please.

Cheers.
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son of triangman
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby son of triangman » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:25 am

Should be a great improvement, I would still go for the second power bogie option as well though, I found it turns a weakling into a gutsy beasty of a 58.

seasprite
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby seasprite » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:59 pm

I always wondered if the lack of performance was down to some sort of manufacturing issue? I have two 58's one is the old 58001 with the motor removed to run dead in tow due to it being useless. The other a 2nd hand model i repainted which runs perfectly ok with a full load of HAA hoppers behind it and no difference in balast weights or motor to the old 58001

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son of triangman
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Re: Origional Hornby Class 58.

Postby son of triangman » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:34 am

The early class 58 motor was useless, Hornby did beef the motor up a bit after numerous complaints for later models. It was down to Hornby cost cutting as per nomral. There are problems with the new Javelin being gutless and shedding traction tyres, shades of the 58 me thinks.


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