Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
sammysquirrel
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Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby sammysquirrel » Wed May 16, 2018 1:12 pm

I am in the process of trying to convert this loco to DCC,
I have managed to connect the orange, grey and red from the decoder.
The black wire I believe should be soldered on to the chassis but whole chassis seems to be
magnetised even the wheels. Can anyone advise me how to demagnetise the chassis.
Incidently, I can read all the cvs on Railmaster but when I put the loco on the track the
Railmaster controller keeps flashing. This may be because the black wire is loose but I don't really
know.
Sammysquirrel

Bigmet
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby Bigmet » Wed May 16, 2018 2:04 pm

Magnetism has nothing to do with it, don't worry about that for now. DCC connections first

Disconnect wire from pick up strip and discard. The red decoder wire has to be connected to the wiper pick up strip.

The black wire has to be connected to the chassis block, it is live to one rail. There is usually a tag under the motor securing screw that has the capacitor attached, that tag is a good connection. The capacitor can be disconnected and discarded, as decoders have the suppression built in.

Orange wire goes to the originally insulated brush, that was previously connected to the pick up strip.

Grey wire goes to the other brush that previously was in direct contact with the metal spring. This brush has to be insulated from the spring by the same method as the original insulated brush. Simplest to take the insulating sleeve off, cut it in half, and use half each side so that both brushes are now insulated from the chassis.

You need to make sure that no part of the decoder or any of the wire connections can make electrical contact with the chassis block, quick way to kill a decoder. The decoder itself needs to be of 1A continuous rating, these motors often draw quite a current.

Finally the magnetised chassis, yes this will be the old 'magnahesion'. If you want rid, then the magnets have to be removed, but they are trapped behind the flanged wheels, so these have to come out. The only way is by knocking out the axles, and that brings problems of its own. If the chassis runs satisfactorily then leave well alone is my best suggestion. It will pick up small steel track pins and similar, and this can cause short circuits. It is simple enough to keep the track clean rather than faff around with disassembly IMO.

sammysquirrel
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby sammysquirrel » Wed May 16, 2018 10:20 pm

Thanks for your help. Will let you know how I get on

Bigmet
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 17, 2018 8:50 am

Pleasure.

And one more thing I forgot to put in my previous post. It is pretty much essential with this type of mechanism to test for correct installation of the decoder (motor fully isolated from track, all connections correct, no connection to track power on the decoder other than red and black) by testing for correct decoder installation by an address change on the decoder on programme track. That's because on DCC track power, the decoder will most likely not survive a wiring or isolation error; and it is relatively easy on this construction with a live chassis block and never designed for DCC, to get it wrong.

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SRman
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby SRman » Thu May 17, 2018 9:09 am

I agree with everything Bigmet has said ... very sound advice.

8)

sammysquirrel
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby sammysquirrel » Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 pm

I did as suggested and also tested on program track where it read ok but as soon as I put it
on the track to run the rfailmaster controller started to flash which looks like a short somewhere.
It could be the decoder may be strong enough.Iam usingnthe Hornby 8249

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Thu May 17, 2018 9:22 pm

One vital point is to ensure that both arms of the V shaped spring are insulated, particularly the very ends, also make sure that the wire soldered to the tag that goes behind the brush spring doesn't touch the motor end plate.
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SRman
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby SRman » Fri May 18, 2018 12:52 am

sammysquirrel wrote:I did as suggested and also tested on program track where it read ok but as soon as I put it
on the track to run the rfailmaster controller started to flash which looks like a short somewhere.
It could be the decoder may be strong enough.Iam usingnthe Hornby 8249



I would definitely ditch the Hornby decoder - they can only take around half an amp and have no overload protection, so will burn out as soon as they are overloaded.

Having said that, it does sound possibly like something is still touching where it shouldn't.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby Bufferstop » Fri May 18, 2018 11:54 am

That was my thinking in relation to the ends of the V spring. With that design of motor the whole frame is connected to the uninsulated wheels. There is one possible unseen source of a short circuit. If there is a motor winding to shaft short circuit you need to specifically test for it. With the orange and grey wires removed from the motor and both ends of the V spring insulated test for continuity between the brushes and the frame. If there is any it's a new or at least rewound motor. Given the model's age poor winding insulation could be a possibility. If a test meter is not available you might make a similar test by leaving the motor connected but unscrewed and lifted clear of the chassis. If the short circuit disappears it's internal to the motor, between windings an frame.
Edited to add the last few words, a short circuit within the windings will only dissapear. when the leads to the motor are removed.
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Bigmet
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby Bigmet » Fri May 18, 2018 12:45 pm

And make a quick check that the magnetism of the wheels or motor magnet haven't picked up a small piece of ferromagnetic material.

Also, always a good idea to test on programme track by making an address change the moment you see a short indication on DCC power. If there is a short, use of programme mode in this way should pick it up.

The reference to railmaster which is a system I am completely ignorant of: you may want to check how it is specified to perform in programme mode. The concept is that it limits current so there is no risk of decoder damage, while checking the integrity of the installation as an address change is made. If a fault is found there should be a failure to programme the new adress and a fault indication.

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:27 am

Railmaster can only use Hornby Elite or Elink as a controller both of which have separate programming track outputs. Note that RM can only program in service mode and not on the main in ops mode, although Elite can programm in all modes outwith RM.
Rob
Edit do you have the shunter service sheet as I can post image if not.
RAF Halton Brat - 96th Entry
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sammysquirrel
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby sammysquirrel » Sun May 20, 2018 6:50 pm

No I do not have the service sheet.
If yo could post image Zi would be grateful!
I am off on holiday for a week so no rush!
Sammysquirrel

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: Triang/Hornby Vintage R.152 Diesel Shunter

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:24 am

This is all I can find...
Rob

R52ServiceSheetM.jpg
R52ServiceSheetM.jpg (42.32 KiB) Viewed 276 times


R52ServiceSheetAM.jpg
R52ServiceSheetAM.jpg (39.68 KiB) Viewed 276 times


X04 motor

ServiceSheetNo051 X04 Motor.jpg


X500 motor

ServiceSheetNo052 X500 Motor.jpg
Attachments
R52ServiceSheetBM.jpg
RAF Halton Brat - 96th Entry
http://www.halton96th.co.uk


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