Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
Firefly16
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Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Firefly16 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:18 pm

Just a thought - has anyone at Hornby thought of tweaking the Railroad 'Maunsells' to give them more of a Southern look'? Reducing the end corridor windows to a depth of 8mm and opening up the quarterlights at the break of 1st and 3rd class sections (and the guard's door on the brake) to make a single large window would be a good start. Still on the corridor side, removing the hinge/handle detailing but leaving the droplights on alternate doors would also make these coaches a little less Great Western, especially if the fixtures on the remaining doors are picked out in bronze/brass colour. Altering the underframe might be a step too far but the edges of the slide-on end panels could at least be painted to match the roof and sides. And why not provide the end boards from the actual Maunsell range as a plug in feature to mitigate those not very realistic gangways? The resulting coach might not be an accurate representation of any actual prototype but it would at least have something of the 'feel' of the railway to which it is supposed to belong.

RFS
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby RFS » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:34 pm

Hornby now have an authentic range of superdetail SR Maunsell coaches. Why would they look at "upgrading" these old ex-GWR coaches to look more like Maunsells? Simply cannot see there being any business case to do so.

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SRman
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby SRman » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:38 pm

While the majority of prototype Maunsell coaches had Pullman gangways, as modelled by Hornby on the 'super detail' versions, a few of the real ones had British Standard gangways fitted at one or both ends to match up with inter-regional stock from other railways. That means that the RailRoad coaches can be used with the existing gangways if you so desire.

Having said that, I would be inclined to agree with RFS, that unless you have masochistic tendencies, you would find the newer models far more satisfying as well as being super-accurate. They can still be found going relatively cheaply if you shop around a bit.

Bigmet
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Bigmet » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:54 am

Firefly16 wrote:Just a thought - has anyone at Hornby thought of tweaking the Railroad 'Maunsells' to give them more of a Southern look'? ...The resulting coach might not be an accurate representation of any actual prototype but it would at least have something of the 'feel' of the railway to which it is supposed to belong.

You need to see that this is a poor deal for Hornby, quite apart from the cost of the work.

As the tooling stands, it is presumably at least an approximation to a GW coach. So they can livery it correctly in GW livery styles, and incorrectly for SR, and anything else they might want to use it for.

Alter the tooling significantly, and the product is inaccurate whatever livery is applied, so they have degraded their range.

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SRman
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby SRman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:50 pm

I always thought those pseudo-Maunsell coaches seemed to have a passing resemblance to the older LSWR 'ironclad' stock. Again, they are wrong in just about every detail, but I thought it was sufficiently passable to repaint one into Engineering Department red to go with a breakdown train.

Firefly16
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Firefly16 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:15 am

RFS asks why Hornby would upgrade the old GWR coaches to make them more Maunsell-like when they now have the super-detailed and accurate Maunsells. But I suggested that Hornby might tweak the Railroad models with the object not of making them more Maunsell-like but giving them something more of the character of Southern coaches rather than GWR ones painted green. The new Maunsells are beautiful models, but they are also expensive. SRman says that the tooling as it stands is for an approximation of a GWR coach, which, along with the 'Thomas' version, is still part of the current Railroad range from which the pseudo Maunsells are now absent. But at some time in the past, this was tweaked to produce the very different roof detailing for the Southern coach. So, does that revised tooling still exist to be modified still further to produce an affordable alternative to the Maunsells, or was it re-tweaked to produce the current Railroad GWR coach?

GWR_fan
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby GWR_fan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:30 am

The older Southern coach had a revised roof profile so the tooling must have had a removable tool for the roof section to enable either the pseudo GWR or Southern coach body. To modify the coach side tooling would negate the other body side from being tooled, irreparably affecting the tooling. I would think the tooling for the coach would be a multi piece tool to enable the injection moulding and release of the moulded body.

RFS
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby RFS » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:51 am

These old coaches go back a long way when modelling standards were very different. Today modellers want accurate, authentic models with attributes such as flush-glazing, close-coupling etc. Hornby, as with all manufacturers, need to be satisfied that any new model will sell in sufficient quantities to recover their costs. I very much doubt this would be the case here.

If Hornby are going to produce a new range of coaches I would far rather they focussed their efforts on something worthwhile, such as Bulleid coaches to the same standard as the Maunsells.

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Lysander
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Lysander » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:13 am

However.........

A bit of surgery and a very simple repaint can improve them considerably. Replace the roof vents, add flush glazing, improve the corridor gangways, spray the interior, spray the exterior in Malachite and straightforward re-letter.

They'll always be what they are, but they will look 100% better.

Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......

Firefly16
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Firefly16 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 am

Which is what I am doing Lysander but with brushes, not sprays. :D

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kiwitram
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby kiwitram » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 pm

I've raised the point before that the coaches in question share some similarities with the Southern's 'Thanet' stock, as can be seen here: http://www.elegantsteam.com/sr_%20thanet_brake_third.html

If suitably painted, paired with Southern steam bogies (available as spares from Bachmann or in kit form), or Fox eight foot bogies, detailed to a nice level with replacement roof vents and toilet filler pipes and British Standard gangways, I reckon they'd look rather nice. Oh, don't forget to flush-glaze with SE Finecast's kits.

The underframe may need a jiggle about with but that's up to the modeller as to how far they'd like to take it. I'm working on replacing the chassis entirely to reduce the ride height; I may replace it with the Dapol LMS 57' underframe, as I will be doing with my GraFar Southern coaches (which, incidentally, aren't a bad representation of the Southern's R1 Maunsell stock).

I hope this is of some help

Alexandra
47864[/url]

Firefly16
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Firefly16 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:07 pm

Your link was interesting kiwitram. I raised this thread because while carrying out my own modifications along the lines I suggested Hornby might adopt
it struck me as a pity that the factory finish - which gives these coaches a really stylish look in the malachite version - has to be sacrificed during the surgery. The brake I am doing at the moment is being flushglazed, though this does entail making up an acetate window to fit the reduced height end corridor window. Another modification is the blanking off of the single window between the two double doors in the van end, a merciless process so far as the factory finish is concerned. I am also modifying the underframe to create an approximation of the actual Maunsell design, while keeping the Mk1 bogies though this would certainly not be a viable factory option. [ A thought - perhaps this should be on the Workbench page. But then again, I don't (can't) do pics]

Firefly16
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby Firefly16 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:11 pm

And my typing's about to go to pieces too if that opening line is anything to go by...

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markS&D
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby markS&D » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:46 pm

This thread fits in nicely with one that I raised a while back, about Dapol Stanier coaches.

In an age where some modeller's such as myself are on a tight budget, I simply cannot justify spending £30+ for one coach, just because it has flush glazing or table lamps that light up.

I make use of a lot of older rolling stock, such as Triang/Hornby mk1's, older Bachmann Bulleids, and some Dapol pre painted kits.

I wound rather spend my hard earned cash on a new locomotive.

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D605Eagle
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Re: Railroad 'Southern' coaches

Postby D605Eagle » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:42 am

My local model shop tells me that sales of expensive super detail coaches has dried up to a mere trickle, however the hornby railroad Mk1s still sell very well as do the other railroad passenger coaches......when Hornby can be bothered to make them that is.


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